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Yeah, it seems like they’ve been duped. I’d try explaining it like this:
“If Jagganoth wins, he gets the power to transcend time and space and we all die instantly. If I win, I get the power to transcend time and space and only SOME people die instantly. Now’s your chance to decide if that includes you.”
Also what’s Incubus’s game, exactly? Even if Jaggy wasn’t able to bend time and it DID take him a thousand years to destroy everything, that STILL ends with his death. He clearly still has some trick up his sleeve. Some way he thinks he can still manipulate things to come out on top. I just can’t see his angle, yet!
That would be plausible if he were defined by his ambition and cowardice alone. The most ridiculous thing about negotiating anything with Jag’s second in command among the Deadmen is it presumes Jag might take ANY time whatsoever to talk with them and approve of his second’s decisions. Considering the mood he will be in when the black bubble bursts, he’s just as likely to cut all his Deadmen down in wantonly mindless berserk abandon as anyone else. But there’s also Incubus’s pride to consider. He will not tolerate anyone proving him wrong about certain things. When his fellow student proved him wrong about them being the same, he punished her by slaying her family. When Alison proved that she was still just a bit too human to continue fighting Jay, he tried to kill her as punishment. These served no purpose and made him dangerous enemies, it was pure pig headed pride. Facing that siding with Jag was futile will cause his pride and cowardice to clash and he will make a fatal mistake. Who takes advantage of that mistake to fell him will be a matter of chance.
I don’t think Incubus is defined by his pride nearly as much as he is defined by his lust for power, his disbelief in selflessness, and his attachment to the sword. I think he killed Maya’s family because he was upset she left him and because power has to be taken to be legitimate in his eyes, he had to kill her to make it real, which he failed to do because he lacked the conviction to simply cut off her head. He tried to kill Allison because if she’s not useful in battle, he’s not going to wait around for Jagganoth to pull the power out of her head, he’s going to take it first. I think he sides with Jagganoth simply because he thinks Jagganoth is going to win. He’s not a dreamer, he’s just a wretch with a sword, trying to delay death by the only means he knows.
I will note, that Incubus did not appear at this negotiation and sent his lesser flunkies instead. They stand before Maya’s current apprentice, with Maya herself at her back.
Also where is the renegade angel that took down square head?
I thought his angle was obvious enough but maybe I pondered the unique unspeakable HORROR of being forced to forget his mother’s face a little too deeply while committing the same crime against countless other innocents, the way his “Deadmen” keep going. Whatever else he wants, two things are clear, he in some way blames Metatron for causing or allowing such suffering when he could have used his power to alleviate or prevent it, or believes he could have.
So he’s going to do it himself, recreating everything into a paradise for children, and their parents. To unmake all that harm as if it never existed. But that means annihilation of a huge amount of memory and meaning from all that’s been learned. Alison wants to break the wheel in a way that preserves the meaning and wisdom of the cycles. She wants the peace of Athens, he the Elysian Fields, with no memory. Just an eternal present:
This is a war of Meaning 🆚 Happiness. Which will define the post wheel era?
I already know Jagganoth’s angle, he’s been refreshingly up-front. My question was referring to Incubus, and how he intends to avoid the other demiurge’s fates. Presumably he has some plan, but I can’t figure out what it is…
Ultimately, if Zoss is to be believed, though, Jagganoth is doomed to fail. He is trying to take control of the Wheel and remake it as he sees fit, but, as Zoss has said, “He who masters the wheel cannot break it”.
A main theme of this comic (probably owing to his influences from Buddhist and Gnostic philosophy) is accepting that, ultimately, you have no control over things at large. You can’t cling to the past and you cannot hope to bend the world to your whim. You must learn to accept that things will continue to happen and that those things will be beyond your ability to control. That you, ultimately, are a transient element of the Wheel and resisting its continual rolling is only going to bring about pain and misery for you.
How would Alison gain any power from winning? She already has all the power of the master key, she just needs to (still?) learn how to use it. Unless she like achieves royalty after or in the middle of the fight.
Yeah. I’m really curious where these guys got the fucking balls to do this. Isn’t Allison pretty well-known by this point? At the VERY least, I feel like it should be known she wrecked Om and Mammon’s shit (as far as anyone knows) and survived the first Discordance. Incubus himself specifically knows she was able to kick him out of her head and is being mentored (or something) by Zoss who makes literally ALL of them shit their collective pants.
Other than the big demon in the back there who might reckon he can put up a fight, given that he doesn’t know the level of power scaling Allison has undergone since the Discordance (or, as DBZA would put it “What the FUCK is Namek!?”), what in Throne do they think is going to stop her from just beating the shit out of them right then and there?
Gotta love “well, it’ll happen after I’m dead, so what do I care?” rhetoric as well. Sure the oceans will burn and the lands will drown, but I’ll be dead by then and live the high life in the meantime, so it’ll be worth it instead of having to do *work* for a few hours.
The least we can do is ensure they get their wish of dying. End them rightly.
He whose name also exceeds greatly the length of the comment thus showing his hubris to the universe. But also confirming the previous commenter's name in stating the likes of it will be seen again.
Like, it is spooky how apt this plot turn is for our lived reality. The rich are willing to co-sign the death warrant of their world, so long as they can live out the rest of their lives in luxury and control.
It’s easier to imagine the End of the World, than the End of Capitalism.
Capitalism didn’t invent evil, it merely tried to yoke that dragon. The madmen are the ones who insist that evil is good, because it can be steered to some productive ends, even as Ragnarok burns the world, thrashing to break free. These sycophants who worship in the temples of the demagogues, calling their selfishness success, will deliver us into their hands for free.
Pree Vessian (if I’m guessing right – the femme with the wine and all the legs) was recently elected to the Throne House of Representatives (Republican Party of Sanctum).
Literally what I was about to say. The world could be on the verge of collapse and investment bros are STILL going to be thinking of the quarterly above all other considerations.
I mean. Arguably, OUR Earth actually IS on the verge of collapse, and has been for quite a while!
If anything, investment bros tend to actually be more motivated than most to add fuel to the figurative fire, because the closer apocalyptic catastrophe looms, the easier it is for them to buy stocks!
Not our Earth, just our civilization which is a completely different and far less significant thing. The Earth will be fine, it’s seen worse many times over.
There is a very, very, thin line between being a perfectly rational capitalist and an infinitely stupid mortal being. It’s just a matter of what your personal priorities are!
If your life goals can be summed up as “maximize your chances of personally living a life of luxury to the end of your days, at ANY price”, this kind of behavior can technically be quite logical and intelligent. The problem only comes when you introduce other goals, like, “maximize your chances of actually living out a full mortal lifespan” or “preserve the existence of your general species for as long as possible”. This crew of kingpins, alas, are not interested in entertaining any secondary goals along these lines!
Good thing we don’t have to deal with people like that in power on Earth, haha…ha…
Black Dragon of the Red River Under the Eaten Moon
I know we’re all rooting for Allison and company to kick their teeth in, but surely they must some kind of insurance against her, right? They already know she has the master key and they should know that she has waaaay more control over her power than she did before.
Omun Vash and Preem Nand have met her before and have reasons to not be terribly impressed. They doubtless think the gifts they recieved from Incubus will be sufficient.
It also occurs to me that Incubus is probably the only one making promises of protection, since Jag is in a bubble. I have no confidence that he even *intends* to honor those, nevermind whether or not he could convince J to burn these guys’ stuff later.
Incubus must have negotiated with whomever the second in command of the Deadman are shortly after Alison fell into a coma. He probably even told him that he can’t guarantee that Jag will stop to listen and I the deal for even a second, but JUST in case he does…
Worse than that, Incubus is claiming to BE Jagganoth’s second in command, and making promises on behalf of an omnicidal maniac over whom he has no real influence.
Alison doesn’t control Gog-Agog. They’re more like… roommates. Gog-Agog *begrudgingly* agreed to help against Jagganoth, and I believe she will, but she probably wouldn’t be thrilled to be called up to deal with trash like this.
Work from home making 90k guilders a year. I cannot believe how pleasurable it was to be a pleasure slave! Contact @xXx_420incubus_xXx in your glyph0sphere dreams for more info
Pros: WFH, sweet earrings
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These guys are going to get absolutely fuckin annihilated.
Ok, so this bunch is here.
Charon, the Cat Guy and Oscar are still missing. I bet they’ll be helping Incubus too.
that’s a lot of words just to get your ass beat anyways
Yeah, it seems like they’ve been duped. I’d try explaining it like this:
“If Jagganoth wins, he gets the power to transcend time and space and we all die instantly. If I win, I get the power to transcend time and space and only SOME people die instantly. Now’s your chance to decide if that includes you.”
Also what’s Incubus’s game, exactly? Even if Jaggy wasn’t able to bend time and it DID take him a thousand years to destroy everything, that STILL ends with his death. He clearly still has some trick up his sleeve. Some way he thinks he can still manipulate things to come out on top. I just can’t see his angle, yet!
Allison’s confident Incubus will fold and join the winning side.
I think this opening move is Incubus trying to test her, and see if she’s going to be a ‘winner’.
Whether she beats all their asses or not may be tangential to his judgement. He seems like he’d think she’s a loser if she spared them.
That would be plausible if he were defined by his ambition and cowardice alone. The most ridiculous thing about negotiating anything with Jag’s second in command among the Deadmen is it presumes Jag might take ANY time whatsoever to talk with them and approve of his second’s decisions. Considering the mood he will be in when the black bubble bursts, he’s just as likely to cut all his Deadmen down in wantonly mindless berserk abandon as anyone else. But there’s also Incubus’s pride to consider. He will not tolerate anyone proving him wrong about certain things. When his fellow student proved him wrong about them being the same, he punished her by slaying her family. When Alison proved that she was still just a bit too human to continue fighting Jay, he tried to kill her as punishment. These served no purpose and made him dangerous enemies, it was pure pig headed pride. Facing that siding with Jag was futile will cause his pride and cowardice to clash and he will make a fatal mistake. Who takes advantage of that mistake to fell him will be a matter of chance.
I don’t think Incubus is defined by his pride nearly as much as he is defined by his lust for power, his disbelief in selflessness, and his attachment to the sword. I think he killed Maya’s family because he was upset she left him and because power has to be taken to be legitimate in his eyes, he had to kill her to make it real, which he failed to do because he lacked the conviction to simply cut off her head. He tried to kill Allison because if she’s not useful in battle, he’s not going to wait around for Jagganoth to pull the power out of her head, he’s going to take it first. I think he sides with Jagganoth simply because he thinks Jagganoth is going to win. He’s not a dreamer, he’s just a wretch with a sword, trying to delay death by the only means he knows.
Sorry to be that guy but I think you meant selfishness not selflessness.
You did not read correctly.
I will note, that Incubus did not appear at this negotiation and sent his lesser flunkies instead. They stand before Maya’s current apprentice, with Maya herself at her back.
Also where is the renegade angel that took down square head?
Well spotted, and commented, sirrah.
I thought his angle was obvious enough but maybe I pondered the unique unspeakable HORROR of being forced to forget his mother’s face a little too deeply while committing the same crime against countless other innocents, the way his “Deadmen” keep going. Whatever else he wants, two things are clear, he in some way blames Metatron for causing or allowing such suffering when he could have used his power to alleviate or prevent it, or believes he could have.
So he’s going to do it himself, recreating everything into a paradise for children, and their parents. To unmake all that harm as if it never existed. But that means annihilation of a huge amount of memory and meaning from all that’s been learned. Alison wants to break the wheel in a way that preserves the meaning and wisdom of the cycles. She wants the peace of Athens, he the Elysian Fields, with no memory. Just an eternal present:
This is a war of Meaning 🆚 Happiness. Which will define the post wheel era?
It’s worth noting that Metaton’s control over time also prevents J or anyone else from even attempting to make said paradise. Or really, anything.
For all we know, J tried a whole bunch of things in previous time loops, but it’s been long lost to memory.
which part of the comic should i read to refresh myself on incubus’ backstory? i don’t really remember the specific aspects about family/mother etc
Try from king-of-swords-6-51
I already know Jagganoth’s angle, he’s been refreshingly up-front. My question was referring to Incubus, and how he intends to avoid the other demiurge’s fates. Presumably he has some plan, but I can’t figure out what it is…
Ultimately, if Zoss is to be believed, though, Jagganoth is doomed to fail. He is trying to take control of the Wheel and remake it as he sees fit, but, as Zoss has said, “He who masters the wheel cannot break it”.
A main theme of this comic (probably owing to his influences from Buddhist and Gnostic philosophy) is accepting that, ultimately, you have no control over things at large. You can’t cling to the past and you cannot hope to bend the world to your whim. You must learn to accept that things will continue to happen and that those things will be beyond your ability to control. That you, ultimately, are a transient element of the Wheel and resisting its continual rolling is only going to bring about pain and misery for you.
When did we learn that Jagganoth could bend time?
We don’t.
But it’s safe to assume that if he can assimilate the Master Key, his powers will be multiplicated, if not exponentiated.
He literally said he intends to use the key to “escape time itself” because he knows Zoss has trapped them all in a loop.
Incubus thinks he can kill Jagannoth. He was planning it even as the Discordance imploded.
How would Alison gain any power from winning? She already has all the power of the master key, she just needs to (still?) learn how to use it. Unless she like achieves royalty after or in the middle of the fight.
well can’t exactly learn how to use it before Jaggy pops out and gives everyone a royal spanking.
Yeah. I’m really curious where these guys got the fucking balls to do this. Isn’t Allison pretty well-known by this point? At the VERY least, I feel like it should be known she wrecked Om and Mammon’s shit (as far as anyone knows) and survived the first Discordance. Incubus himself specifically knows she was able to kick him out of her head and is being mentored (or something) by Zoss who makes literally ALL of them shit their collective pants.
Other than the big demon in the back there who might reckon he can put up a fight, given that he doesn’t know the level of power scaling Allison has undergone since the Discordance (or, as DBZA would put it “What the FUCK is Namek!?”), what in Throne do they think is going to stop her from just beating the shit out of them right then and there?
Turns out the bankers are in cahoots with the guy with the rhetoric who wants to end immigration, emigration and also just staying put.
I am shocked.
I feel like violence is impending.
Then everyone is about to reach heaven.
oh they’ll reach heaven through violence alright, just won’t be them doing the violence part
I hope Big Smily=ey Guy suffers the ffects of the violence first.
I don’t think most of those guys are reaching heaven.
I hope Alison gets rid of them quickly, otherwise they might have power enough to destroy some of the neat ships we have seen in prior pages.
They came /from/ Throne. So I’m thinking most of them won’t get /back/ to Heaven
That escalated quickly..Not All happy soup eating
Im sure talking business under the giant floating orb that is barely containing a universe destroying deity is a good idea actually, very topical even
Ugh, the capitalists always sell out the demagogue dictator. Seems fitting given the world’s current circumstances.
Gotta love “well, it’ll happen after I’m dead, so what do I care?” rhetoric as well. Sure the oceans will burn and the lands will drown, but I’ll be dead by then and live the high life in the meantime, so it’ll be worth it instead of having to do *work* for a few hours.
Apres nous le deluge, right?
Qu’ils mangent de la brioche…
The least we can do is ensure they get their wish of dying. End them rightly.
This pommel is an awful, cursed thing that I will not use.
It has simply always been true. You are just more concerned and aware now that it is at your own doorstep.
Like, it is spooky how apt this plot turn is for our lived reality. The rich are willing to co-sign the death warrant of their world, so long as they can live out the rest of their lives in luxury and control.
It’s easier to imagine the End of the World, than the End of Capitalism.
Allison, kick their asses.
Capitalism, the real villain of the story (or at least a majir motivating factor)
Capitalism didn’t invent evil, it merely tried to yoke that dragon. The madmen are the ones who insist that evil is good, because it can be steered to some productive ends, even as Ragnarok burns the world, thrashing to break free. These sycophants who worship in the temples of the demagogues, calling their selfishness success, will deliver us into their hands for free.
That would make the nihilist world-ender implacably opposed to them all the Commie. You realize that, right?
Nah. He’s climate change
Politics and economics is not a one-dimensional spectrum. Stop fighting the Cold War.
Never! The cold war shall never end! Death to those commie bastards! I can’t imagine a world at peace!
Spoken as one who was born almost ten years after the cold war ended
they really aren’t getting that allisons like a major league demiurge now huh. she can whoop their asses easy peasy
Pree Vessian (if I’m guessing right – the femme with the wine and all the legs) was recently elected to the Throne House of Representatives (Republican Party of Sanctum).
This plot point has to have been planned years in advance. Right?
The general plot point probably was. As for the the exact wording, especially “if his intentions are just rhetoric”…
The wheel keeps turning
♫ “Oh, the wheel in the sky keeps on turning…” ♫
what? the one where all the bad guys happen to also be money hungry pigs? that’s like, a *reality* plot point
What is this, the Fell-For-It-Again Olympics?
No no, you don’t get it, the thing that will literally genocide the entire universe just made us a REALLY GOOD OFFER
Maybe the leopards will eat my face last?
Oh lmao they went “Ok we can save the universe from destruction but how would that investment help our shareholders”
Seems pretty realistic tbh
“Seems pretty realistic tbh”
Literally what I was about to say. The world could be on the verge of collapse and investment bros are STILL going to be thinking of the quarterly above all other considerations.
Wasn’t this quite literally a plot point from the finale of Dinosaurs?
Dinosaurs has two canonical finales – one happy, the other sad.
You are correct, that this is literally the plot of the sad ending.
I mean. Arguably, OUR Earth actually IS on the verge of collapse, and has been for quite a while!
If anything, investment bros tend to actually be more motivated than most to add fuel to the figurative fire, because the closer apocalyptic catastrophe looms, the easier it is for them to buy stocks!
Not our Earth, just our civilization which is a completely different and far less significant thing. The Earth will be fine, it’s seen worse many times over.
As things end, you got to get what you can while you can still get it. Then, while the rest of humanity burns, you can sit pretty watching it all.
Or that’s the mindset, anyway.
He who dies with the most Toys “Wins”.
“And that’s if his intentions are not just rhetoric.”
It hurts, boss.
too real, too real.
562 Palms that didn’t Fall For It Again
Preem Vash wouldn’t REALLY, invade Canada. He’s not insane.
How often have you drove past a fire and thought ‘how can this benefit me”?
Never let a good crisis go to waste
Is that you, Marcus Licinius Crassus?
The absolute quality of education shown in some of these comments always makes me grin.
Now we just need to give him all the gold he can drink.
Never! I do stop what I’m doing to admire it as long as I can.
Goddam libertarians
Why? Plenty of aggression is being initiated here.
He’s talking about the Libertarians In Name Only, who would vote for Satan himself, if he promised to lower the age of consent.
I think Alison’s patience is about to run out…
None of thee are truly driven by avarice. I don’t buy it for a second!
All I sense is fear.
Ooh, so they’re STUPID stupid.
I don’t know, personally I’m thinking they’re STUPID stupid
They’re probably power tripping on Incubus power, and thinking they can take out anyone. That tend to make you take bad decisions.
Yes. Unless Incubus actually has a plausible plan for escaping the omnicide.
“It’s like a tiny little bug looking on a tiny little STUPID bug!” (c) Gog Agog decribing myopia of everyone around her
There is a very, very, thin line between being a perfectly rational capitalist and an infinitely stupid mortal being. It’s just a matter of what your personal priorities are!
If your life goals can be summed up as “maximize your chances of personally living a life of luxury to the end of your days, at ANY price”, this kind of behavior can technically be quite logical and intelligent. The problem only comes when you introduce other goals, like, “maximize your chances of actually living out a full mortal lifespan” or “preserve the existence of your general species for as long as possible”. This crew of kingpins, alas, are not interested in entertaining any secondary goals along these lines!
Good thing we don’t have to deal with people like that in power on Earth, haha…ha…
. . . haaa
Conscience is the first casualty of war. Luckily these guys won’t be far behind.
Hahahah, wow, these guys don’t realize she’s gonna just beat the shit out of them first huh.
I know we’re all rooting for Allison and company to kick their teeth in, but surely they must some kind of insurance against her, right? They already know she has the master key and they should know that she has waaaay more control over her power than she did before.
Preem 16 Chachachacha may be overestimating the wisdom of the opposing Good Old Party.
Omun Vash and Preem Nand have met her before and have reasons to not be terribly impressed. They doubtless think the gifts they recieved from Incubus will be sufficient.
Yeah, that’s my read on it as well.
It also occurs to me that Incubus is probably the only one making promises of protection, since Jag is in a bubble. I have no confidence that he even *intends* to honor those, nevermind whether or not he could convince J to burn these guys’ stuff later.
Theres no way these rubes could stop a maybe strike, no matter who they’ve paid
Well, maybe they could. But then again, maybe not.
Incubus must have negotiated with whomever the second in command of the Deadman are shortly after Alison fell into a coma. He probably even told him that he can’t guarantee that Jag will stop to listen and I the deal for even a second, but JUST in case he does…
Worse than that, Incubus is claiming to BE Jagganoth’s second in command, and making promises on behalf of an omnicidal maniac over whom he has no real influence.
Fellas, I don’t think they know the worm turned. Sic the beast on these brainless bourgeois.
Alison doesn’t control Gog-Agog. They’re more like… roommates. Gog-Agog *begrudgingly* agreed to help against Jagganoth, and I believe she will, but she probably wouldn’t be thrilled to be called up to deal with trash like this.
Could be useful as one last attempt at negotiating.
Allison’s response: “Maybe.”
Perfect. Elegant. The only response. And it could not have been put better.
Oh yeah, Incubus, forgot about the guy.
And now for Alison to One Punch Woman the fools.
Why is preemed hams mewing in the upper right corner? What’s his looksmaxxing routine? Need to know.
He has been, and will remain to mew for the rest of his relatively short existence.
He’s a kitty cat.