I am curious, does an angel breathe? I had assumed not given they are essentially just a soul inhabiting a shell with no biological functions, but given that breath is so important for Ki Rata maybe we have to rethink exactly what angels are? (Also I could just be forgetting key details shown previously of white chain breathing)
Angels indeed do not breathe and should thus be incapable of using Ki Rata. Which is why White Chain doing it anyway and manifesting a physical flesh and blood body was an inexplicable miracle.
As White Chain pointed out, she is now in a human body and must certainly breathe. And can possibly die in a more permanent way than she ever did as an angel. Get with the program WC, time’s running out!
Presumably not given how many angels we’ve seen without mouths. Also the First thing White Chain did after becoming Human was breath out so this was probably significantly new to her.
234 Winged Eye Walks the Path for Others to Follow
As 315 Gilded Rings Adorn the Fist once said; “Stone doesn’t breathe, but flame does.” Angels can, and indeed must breathe, even without mouths. Difficulty breathing due to, say, centuries of bodily disuse leading to excessive internal dust build up can be just as bad for an angel as it can a human, though its nothing a good solid kick in the chest cant fix.
She could do Ki-Rata then because her breath was new. Her breath knew nothing but how to breathe. Now that she’s lived as a human for years, it’s learned her anxiety, her fear, her trepidation. It is weighed down by the phantoms and delusions of mind as the two: body and mind have become accustom to each other. She must be sure of purpose as she was in that moment, and to let her breath come to her naturally. For now the umbra eclipses her royalty and she can not see.
Remember Vigilant Gaze in his armour. When smashed in chest, he wheezed, and than his voice returned to normal (that is, sounded as it does in angelic form). So, apparently, they do breath.
Oh right, the order of ki rata masters existed for the sole purpose of killing anyone who managed to learn any ki rata. To contain the art, like a disease. Funny, I never thought of that after White Chain did it. But of course Solomon would have kept it up even as the sole remnant of the order.
But he didn’t kill White Chain because. . .he figured he’d have to train her to replace him? Right then and there? I could buy that from Solomon David.
I’m uncertain, but it’s the only item that I can recall being offered in the scene. As I suggested, I can’t come up with a good reason as to why Cio++ would want the worm, or at least not this particular worm. Gog rather famously has no shortage of things, and isn’t sparing in passing them out.
Gundhram the Reader, Belligerent Knight and Amateur Historian
Devils gain power from understanding their own identity. Even if New Game Plus+ Cio didn’t have a desperate desire to regain what little she remembers of having lost, the Worm, as described by Gogagog, is every memory that you have ever had placed in perfect thousand-faceted diamond.
That’s the sort of thing that can punt a Devil straight into an Ebon mask.
That’s an interesting thought, but it seems to have at least two flaws. 1 – The worms aren’t rare, so Cio++ could have sourced one elsewhere previously.
2 – Per Gog’s comments, roles shift in each iteration of the loop. Assuming things work as you suggest, Cio++ would get a nigh-infinite collection of conflicting memories about other versions of herself. Even in memories of the present loop, Cio has been at least three distinct entities: Yabalchoath, Cio Classic, and Cio++, and memories regarding them would be warped and tinted by the conflicting perception of thousands of distinct viewers. All of that seems less like a ticket straight to Ebon and more like a trip through the total perspective vortex.
wintyr isn't clever enough to make a cool angel name :(
My memory is certainly imperfect, but I don’t recall an intimation in this scene that Gog has a shard to give. The worm, however, was offered, and Gog ‘s response to Cio++’s lines seem in reference to that offer. We’ll see, I guess.
Gog Agog did not mention a shard, no. The the reveal of the other remnants of the mask lingering within the pale devil’s maw and their previous draw toward Allison’s piece of the mask makes me think that Gog may very well have one as well, though.
Yeah, having stolen one (or more!) pieces of Cio’s mask seems like something Gog would be motivated to conceal from Allison right now. I think Cio++ means the worm. But what if?
It AGES me that you described that as one of the very early images of Throne, as I started reading a bit before that. But yes, that was near seven years ago, quite a time has passed! The images is a map of Ashton one pages 5-43 and 5-44, Fifth chapter of Book 3
There was an authors note too about how very much he wanted to kill Solomon, but just didn’t have the ability. Presumably Solomon just couldn’t be bothered killing him.
Yeah, Abbadon did say on Tumbler when asked how those two were “complete and mortal enemies”. Apparently, this is the only survivor of the old order. Which indicates he is even MORE badass than your regular Ki Ratist.
what do you mean by that-genuine question? is it grammatically incorrect? is it just a strange statment? are you quoting me in agreement or for another reason i’m not adapt enough at reading the room to notice? i really dont know and would appriciate knowing.
Timeful man interprets messages from the wired Aether
I believe the unlying robot agrees with you, A Idiot, in principle, and is criticizing the remark by Incestuous. In my interpretation, The Robot claims that “Because it’s sexy” was an answer that fits the question “Why would you think that?” but not a satisfactory one. The robot then further claims that “Because it is heavenly and Because it is Justified” are not answers at all, but rather circular rationalizations, similar to “It is right to think that because it is right to think that.” as heaven and justice are standards of rightiousness.
The robot lastly emphasizes that “Why would you think that?” is not the important question, but rather we should focus on “What’s wrong with people?”
That is how I read the automaton’s statement anyway. I am open to being corrected.
And Solomon is known for being its own justification. He said that, mind you, battling White Chain – a moment before he turned her from stone to flesh. And what flesh!
Solomon demonstrates the falsity of fear for one’s own mortal shell. So fragile, so frail, so full of fire that burns only to destroy. Accept the inevitability of one’s own end, and much becomes clear.
In the first lesson, the master saith, breathe.
And then, the master saith, think of your hands and feet as swords.
Why do that? Hands and feet are far superior to swords. All a sword can do is cut, after all. But stick some ki into it and a hand can cut things to, on top of still being able to do all sort of handy things.
I wonder if this devil-thing is similar to a Hollow. That looks like a person in there, and the demonic cocoon containing Cio’s mask shards seems to be kinda… eating them…
Yes, but isn’t she a pale devil now? And those are supposed to be mute right? White Chain, Cio, Allison… these three love breaking all the rules, don’t they?
Yeah I’m thinking that Cio is the pale devil we see on the exterior, but she is wrapped around a human and is using them as a mouthpiece / fuel source. Cio did hint that she had eaten people in the past (Seeker of Thrones 5-47).
It is the paradox of Devils that both their weakest and strongest are defined by a lack of name.
I think this pale vessel for black flame seeks to forge her own mask, using the power of one who is made of masks.
No name, no mask but the one she gives herself.
A timeless angel reborn as something new, and a forming Devil who shall set her Self in stone.
White Chain really has a problem with having power, doesn’t she? The Key, Ki Rata… she keeps finding reasons why she can’t use them. Which may mean that she can actualy be trusted with such power?
not really. If you made her empress she would be an awful ruler since she would refuse to *do* anything. The point of having power is to do things with it, either use it to make things better or chose to let things sit and stagnate. She (as she currently is at least) would chose to do the latter.
That attitude is actually exactly the kind of attitude, ONCE tempered with enough wisdom, that is ideal for leadership in a genuine republic. She’s got more than enough abstract wisdom from the centuries of experience over her 82 lives, but she’s had no practical experience as a human, & no certainty of whether or not she can still be revived if she dies in this body.
But wise republican leadership has ALWAYS been defined by wise self restraints. Republics are rotting lately because nepotism is out of control, malevolent morons who initially got lucky now helping their moron friends & relatives get a permanent foothold in our bureaucracy instead of selecting members based purely on merit. They don’t know the meaning of restraint, which makes these very dangerous times.
Our natures need Better Angels like Chain.
She still carries the Trigram Mantra deep, deep, within her: “Wisdom. Restraint. Emptiness.” Emphasis on RESTRAINT.
Every piece of violence an angel commits is a threat to Prim’s Comb. Royalty is an act of terrible violence against the world. It’s no small wonder, then, that White Chain is so hesitant to use the power of Royalty.
In fact, I don’t think she can ever truly be a Queen, like Allison. She’s too wise for that. But she needs to accept that she can no longer remain a mere peacekeeper, either. Neither Angel nor Human, neither Master nor Servant, both she and Solomon will have to realize that she is Something New.
And yes, that Something New is going to absolutely KICK. ASS. I am SO excited for it.
As White Chain pointed out, she is now in a human body and must certainly breathe. And can possibly die in a more permanent way than she ever did as an angel. Get with the program WC, time’s running out!
“I wish to return”? What does the demon mean by that? Wants to be Cio again or wants to return after the reset like Gog was offering Allison? I wholly support the first idea and utterly dread the second.
I’m guessing the demon wishes to be able to return to that nice place with the copper pans and the plants. Given that it is only a white devil, we are not sure how much understanding it has as to how that would come about.
In practice, Gog Magog is offering the 2nd option- stick around for the new turning of the wheel, and after a few thousand years you can go see that house again.
clown music worm music clown music worm music clown music worm music clown music
Fish music
♫ Fish heads, fish heads,
Roly-poly fish heads… ♫
I think *it’s* the one that’s going to eat them up. (Yum.)
In the evening
floating in the soup
♫ Fish heads, fish heads,
eat them up, YUM! ♫
Worst holiday camp ever. One star only because can’t give none.
Gotta bring the bass.
Guys I know how we can escape the big fish: turn his attention on to the BIG WORM.
I hear circus music.
Please don’t.
I am tired of seeing the moment when fear becomes the recognition of opportunity. It was bad enough to live in that feeling, but to witness it?
?
There’s always commenters here trying to mimic Abbadon’s profundity in the lore fluff he writes, it’s generally nonsense.
I was actually trying to express heartfelt sentiment the noon after a all nighter
The ohoho feeling is bad to see on someone’s face
Whatever the worm has planned is bad for everyone including her.
yeah and it’s fun nonsense
I am curious, does an angel breathe? I had assumed not given they are essentially just a soul inhabiting a shell with no biological functions, but given that breath is so important for Ki Rata maybe we have to rethink exactly what angels are? (Also I could just be forgetting key details shown previously of white chain breathing)
Stone doesn’t breathe, but flame does.
Underrated comment.
Angels indeed do not breathe and should thus be incapable of using Ki Rata. Which is why White Chain doing it anyway and manifesting a physical flesh and blood body was an inexplicable miracle.
As White Chain pointed out, she is now in a human body and must certainly breathe. And can possibly die in a more permanent way than she ever did as an angel. Get with the program WC, time’s running out!
Presumably not given how many angels we’ve seen without mouths. Also the First thing White Chain did after becoming Human was breath out so this was probably significantly new to her.
As 315 Gilded Rings Adorn the Fist once said; “Stone doesn’t breathe, but flame does.” Angels can, and indeed must breathe, even without mouths. Difficulty breathing due to, say, centuries of bodily disuse leading to excessive internal dust build up can be just as bad for an angel as it can a human, though its nothing a good solid kick in the chest cant fix.
She could do Ki-Rata then because her breath was new. Her breath knew nothing but how to breathe. Now that she’s lived as a human for years, it’s learned her anxiety, her fear, her trepidation. It is weighed down by the phantoms and delusions of mind as the two: body and mind have become accustom to each other. She must be sure of purpose as she was in that moment, and to let her breath come to her naturally. For now the umbra eclipses her royalty and she can not see.
Remember Vigilant Gaze in his armour. When smashed in chest, he wheezed, and than his voice returned to normal (that is, sounded as it does in angelic form). So, apparently, they do breath.
I was expecting a Left Shark joke in that final panel.
Seconded, especially after seeing the Luffy.
THE RIDE NEVER ENDS
I want to get off off gogogogagogs wild gogogog
Maybe, but insanity aside, Mother Worm says the ride is a merry-go-round. (grab the ring, it’s coming ’round again).
Just curious: if there are gogworms are there ever any gogflies?
Oh right, the order of ki rata masters existed for the sole purpose of killing anyone who managed to learn any ki rata. To contain the art, like a disease. Funny, I never thought of that after White Chain did it. But of course Solomon would have kept it up even as the sole remnant of the order.
But he didn’t kill White Chain because. . .he figured he’d have to train her to replace him? Right then and there? I could buy that from Solomon David.
I can honestly say that I was not expecting Cio++ to request the worm.
Re: Salami Dave – When the chips are down… when you have no other option… you must… DiveKick!
My apologies, I didn’t intend this as a reply. Please disregard it.
That’s okay, I think everyone can figure out the context from the, uh, lack of context.
Are we sure it’s the worm that she is requesting? 🤔
I’m uncertain, but it’s the only item that I can recall being offered in the scene. As I suggested, I can’t come up with a good reason as to why Cio++ would want the worm, or at least not this particular worm. Gog rather famously has no shortage of things, and isn’t sparing in passing them out.
Devils gain power from understanding their own identity. Even if New Game Plus+ Cio didn’t have a desperate desire to regain what little she remembers of having lost, the Worm, as described by Gogagog, is every memory that you have ever had placed in perfect thousand-faceted diamond.
That’s the sort of thing that can punt a Devil straight into an Ebon mask.
That’s an interesting thought, but it seems to have at least two flaws. 1 – The worms aren’t rare, so Cio++ could have sourced one elsewhere previously.
2 – Per Gog’s comments, roles shift in each iteration of the loop. Assuming things work as you suggest, Cio++ would get a nigh-infinite collection of conflicting memories about other versions of herself. Even in memories of the present loop, Cio has been at least three distinct entities: Yabalchoath, Cio Classic, and Cio++, and memories regarding them would be warped and tinted by the conflicting perception of thousands of distinct viewers. All of that seems less like a ticket straight to Ebon and more like a trip through the total perspective vortex.
well, what’s a little ego death in the face of becoming HERSELF?
Guys, she just wants to be with Allison again.
Hmm, I thought she was asking for a mask shard. The worm could make sense, too, though— but I’m leaning toward the former.
My memory is certainly imperfect, but I don’t recall an intimation in this scene that Gog has a shard to give. The worm, however, was offered, and Gog ‘s response to Cio++’s lines seem in reference to that offer. We’ll see, I guess.
Gog Agog did not mention a shard, no. The the reveal of the other remnants of the mask lingering within the pale devil’s maw and their previous draw toward Allison’s piece of the mask makes me think that Gog may very well have one as well, though.
Yeah, having stolen one (or more!) pieces of Cio’s mask seems like something Gog would be motivated to conceal from Allison right now. I think Cio++ means the worm. But what if?
Or, just a new mask period. Gog’s crowd of party “guests”-selves have quite a few to spare.
Isn’t it fucked up that in one of the very early Throne images, there’s a mention of a gardener in Ashton who just
knows Ki Rata
I don’t remember where that page is, but he’s hanging out in ‘Old Monk’s Tower’.
It AGES me that you described that as one of the very early images of Throne, as I started reading a bit before that. But yes, that was near seven years ago, quite a time has passed! The images is a map of Ashton one pages 5-43 and 5-44, Fifth chapter of Book 3
There was an authors note too about how very much he wanted to kill Solomon, but just didn’t have the ability. Presumably Solomon just couldn’t be bothered killing him.
Yeah, Abbadon did say on Tumbler when asked how those two were “complete and mortal enemies”. Apparently, this is the only survivor of the old order. Which indicates he is even MORE badass than your regular Ki Ratist.
Ki Racist
Gog is partying so hard the perspective guide is popping back in
I spy a Luffy.
A Luffy AND a Buggy methinks.
I fear what hiding in the Pineapple under the sea 🙂
Yeah, White Chain, stop wasting breath in complaining and breathe on them motherfuckers.
every interaction between White Chain and Salami Dave has massive “oh they fuckin’, looket them sparks” energy
dont think so. Salami is the closest thing she has to a ‘dad’- he is responsible for her having a human corpus, yes?
Definitely more a parental thing. A man who lost his daughters and, for millenia, had only sons is now surpassed by his only daughter.
Yes, I too see the romantic chemistry between a young woman and an old man telling her to stop whining.
Young woman? Dog, she is older than him. She is older than any human being. “Young woman”. Insanity.
As an angel, White Chain is as old as time.
As a woman, White Chain is, what, a few years old at most?
WOW. You are definitely not correct on your assessment of their relationship. But I will choose not to yuck your yum.
they’re literally the least horny and most familial allegory in the whole comic. you’re just attracted to one of em or both
You are all a bunch of prudes, afraid of a little holy incest.
This demon could easily become more than 2 demons if it consumes the worm. Maybe even 3 demons. Or some… huge number of demons. Like, a lot of demons.
…. what’s wrong with people? Why would you think that?
Becausy it’s sexy, heavenly and justified.
Three words were spoken (sexy/heavenly/justified) but only one proceeded from the thought; the other two were rationalization.
Most importantly, however, “what’s wrong with people?”
what do you mean by that-genuine question? is it grammatically incorrect? is it just a strange statment? are you quoting me in agreement or for another reason i’m not adapt enough at reading the room to notice? i really dont know and would appriciate knowing.
I believe the unlying robot agrees with you, A Idiot, in principle, and is criticizing the remark by Incestuous. In my interpretation, The Robot claims that “Because it’s sexy” was an answer that fits the question “Why would you think that?” but not a satisfactory one. The robot then further claims that “Because it is heavenly and Because it is Justified” are not answers at all, but rather circular rationalizations, similar to “It is right to think that because it is right to think that.” as heaven and justice are standards of rightiousness.
The robot lastly emphasizes that “Why would you think that?” is not the important question, but rather we should focus on “What’s wrong with people?”
That is how I read the automaton’s statement anyway. I am open to being corrected.
ha, i see. thank you, timeful-man.
What’s wrong with people?
Nothing.
Incest is not wrong.
It’s heavenly and justified.
It does not need to answer questions.
Incest is its own jystification.
And Solomon is known for being its own justification. He said that, mind you, battling White Chain – a moment before he turned her from stone to flesh. And what flesh!
Solomon demonstrates the falsity of fear for one’s own mortal shell. So fragile, so frail, so full of fire that burns only to destroy. Accept the inevitability of one’s own end, and much becomes clear.
In the first lesson, the master saith, breathe.
And then, the master saith, think of your hands and feet as swords.
Why do that? Hands and feet are far superior to swords. All a sword can do is cut, after all. But stick some ki into it and a hand can cut things to, on top of still being able to do all sort of handy things.
Is that the Worm God ? 😀
“Cool story brah, however DIVE KICK”
– Salami Dave, probably
I love all the references in the background, especially Luffy and the Starbucks mermaid lmao
Spare a thought for the poor Devil
This was my thinking.
Gyarados used Hyperbeam!
Hitmon Lee defended with a kick.
that pale devil caked up damn
There’s so much going on holy shit.
So. Is Gog-Agog a thing that can be parasitized by the hot black flame?
I had the opposite question. Can Gog Magog parasitize such a mercurial thing as a demon?
Stop thinking and just feel the power of doing!
I wonder if this devil-thing is similar to a Hollow. That looks like a person in there, and the demonic cocoon containing Cio’s mask shards seems to be kinda… eating them…
Yes, but isn’t she a pale devil now? And those are supposed to be mute right? White Chain, Cio, Allison… these three love breaking all the rules, don’t they?
Cio is just built different
Yeah I’m thinking that Cio is the pale devil we see on the exterior, but she is wrapped around a human and is using them as a mouthpiece / fuel source. Cio did hint that she had eaten people in the past (Seeker of Thrones 5-47).
It is also interesting that this devil speaks with white text in black speech bubbles, similar to Himself.
It is the paradox of Devils that both their weakest and strongest are defined by a lack of name.
I think this pale vessel for black flame seeks to forge her own mask, using the power of one who is made of masks.
No name, no mask but the one she gives herself.
A timeless angel reborn as something new, and a forming Devil who shall set her Self in stone.
You would be mute too if you had that many nails holding your jaw in place.
White Chain really has a problem with having power, doesn’t she? The Key, Ki Rata… she keeps finding reasons why she can’t use them. Which may mean that she can actualy be trusted with such power?
not really. If you made her empress she would be an awful ruler since she would refuse to *do* anything. The point of having power is to do things with it, either use it to make things better or chose to let things sit and stagnate. She (as she currently is at least) would chose to do the latter.
That attitude is actually exactly the kind of attitude, ONCE tempered with enough wisdom, that is ideal for leadership in a genuine republic. She’s got more than enough abstract wisdom from the centuries of experience over her 82 lives, but she’s had no practical experience as a human, & no certainty of whether or not she can still be revived if she dies in this body.
But wise republican leadership has ALWAYS been defined by wise self restraints. Republics are rotting lately because nepotism is out of control, malevolent morons who initially got lucky now helping their moron friends & relatives get a permanent foothold in our bureaucracy instead of selecting members based purely on merit. They don’t know the meaning of restraint, which makes these very dangerous times.
Our natures need Better Angels like Chain.
She still carries the Trigram Mantra deep, deep, within her: “Wisdom. Restraint. Emptiness.” Emphasis on RESTRAINT.
Every piece of violence an angel commits is a threat to Prim’s Comb. Royalty is an act of terrible violence against the world. It’s no small wonder, then, that White Chain is so hesitant to use the power of Royalty.
In fact, I don’t think she can ever truly be a Queen, like Allison. She’s too wise for that. But she needs to accept that she can no longer remain a mere peacekeeper, either. Neither Angel nor Human, neither Master nor Servant, both she and Solomon will have to realize that she is Something New.
And yes, that Something New is going to absolutely KICK. ASS. I am SO excited for it.
As White Chain pointed out, she is now in a human body and must certainly breathe. And can possibly die in a more permanent way than she ever did as an angel. Get with the program WC, time’s running out!
Now that is an interesting name Mr. Gilead. I just saw a song suggesting the opposite of your moniker today.
“I wish to return”? What does the demon mean by that? Wants to be Cio again or wants to return after the reset like Gog was offering Allison? I wholly support the first idea and utterly dread the second.
I’m guessing the demon wishes to be able to return to that nice place with the copper pans and the plants. Given that it is only a white devil, we are not sure how much understanding it has as to how that would come about.
In practice, Gog Magog is offering the 2nd option- stick around for the new turning of the wheel, and after a few thousand years you can go see that house again.