“Saint” also implies a level of morality that is fully not in play, but the sword has its own morality—distinct from the normal kind—as well we have seen.
i’d like to point out that most real “saints” were actually truly horrible people. mother teresa, for example, housed dying people until two of them “miraculously” survived on their own despite claiming it was to provide medical care. when she got her cancer diagnosis, she immediately got the best treatment medicine could buy. she was a fucking murderous and degenerate hypocrite.
I’m not big on venerating people, but calling Mother Theresa “a fucking murderous and degenerate hypocrite” is as disingenuous as calling her a saint. It seem like for the most part she was genuinely trying to help with the limited means and medical knowledge that were available to her, and it’s not like the people she cared for would be able to get better treatment anywhere else at the time. She was a zealot, that’s for sure, but at least she was a zealot trying to do good things.
Maybe systematically boiling people down to “saints” and “monsters” is just not a good idea in 99% of cases.
Nah, I would call her some pretty bad names. If you have the patience for a podcast, I do recommend Respect The Dead’s episode on her. Tl;dr she believed that being next to suffering was holy & taught a lesson or something and so as a result the people in her “care” got barely any help at all.
Most of the misinformation about Mother Teresa comes from Christopher Hitchens who did a hit piece on her, which has been endlessly repeated. The complaints tend to center around a few points.
1. She didn’t give people in pain anesthesia. (This is often tied to the ‘suffering brings people closer to God’ quote.)
2. People in her care died a lot.
3. Money donated to Mother Teresa went to the Catholic Church.
The answers to these complaints:
1. Anesthesia was heavily regulated in India where she worked, and nuns are not anesthesiologists. Her comments about suffering bringing people closer to God are intended to bring comfort to those who are suffering and help them find meaning in their lives.
2. Nuns are not doctors. Mother Teresa did not run a hospital; she took people who were dying in gutters, gave them basic medical attention, and let them die with dignity in accordance with their faith. (Muslims were read the Quran, etc.)
3. She was a nun who took a vow of poverty. Of course it went to the Church.
It has been widely reported that Mother Teresa exploited people for selfish and religious reasons. Medical negligence is a crime and what she did was far worse than negligence, potentially violating human rights. Despite recieving millions in donations, she did nothing to improve the conditions of the people under her care. She did not care about helping people.
The Catholic church is a deeply corrupt organisation. Even if it wasn’t, many of its principles are harmful or discriminatory. Mother Teresa also associated with criminals and fascists, and defended pedophiles.
Being a zealot doesn’t excuse anything. If I blow your brains out after taking your confession under the delusion that it’s a good act because I assured you your place in Heaven, am I still a good person?
Outcomes matter along with intent.
Take manslaughter as a crime category for instance. The existence of it as a category of wrongdoing a person can commit is extremely uncontroversial. If intent didn’t matter, there’d be no such thing. It’d just be murder every time a person causes another’s death outside self defense. But if outcome didn’t matter, nobody would ever be charged with manslaughter at all.
I didn’t say being a zealot excused anything, more like the opposite – despite being a zealot, she at least helped people.
I guess the issue with mother Theresa is that we could debate whether the outcome of her action was actually positive. But like it’s been mentioned above it sounds like she gave people who were dying in the gutter a small chance at recovery and at the very least some form of care and comfort as they passed. Then again, like with most historical figures, it all depends on how you look at it and who you ask.
If only she had been Mother Theresa, Sword Saint, we could have titled-checked her objectively based on the amount of ass she kicked. Truly a shame.
This conversation reminds me of one the late Fernando Espinosa Sr. once told me. He said that his father was very racist against black people, and at his father’s funeral, some black men came up to him and asked, “You know your dad was really racist, right?” Fernando said that he thought he was going to be killed. “Yes”, he replied.
“Well, when the foreman made rules to make us work harder and get paid less, he stood up for us and made sure we weren’t treated different.”
This is the best I can remember this story, so it’s not word-for-word, plus it probably wasn’t from him either. But I think the point stands.
Mother Terisa was in fact a murderous degenerate. Many of the most prolific serial murderers in human history did so using a brutal combination of unaccountability and control over hospital spaces. There’s several good reasons why only teams of doctors and nurses should be broadly trusted.
Again though, she was not pretending to be managing a hospital, she was giving last-resort care to people who wouldn’t be greeted anywhere else. It’s not like she was preventing them to get better care, they couldn’t.
This is true, but she was sold to the public as something she wasn’t. A huge amount of money went to her that could have been better spent on genuine care, and large proportions of that went towards missionary work rather than charity. To what extent that’s her fault vs. the church vs. people’s apathy and ignorance is an open question.
And the millions of dollars she received went to a corrupt organization that has systematically covered up mass killings of indigenous women and children at its residential schools in Canada and molestation of children by its priests around the world.
Can we please not reopen the discussion on Mother Teresa? I’m a Bengali living in Kolkata and I am sick to death of people taking sides on her. If you must know, I think she did more harm than good, but part of that was because of toxic institutions and the other part was because of personal ambition, so let’s just let the dead lie, shall we?
Actually no, he was actually more famous as a painter than a duelist when he was alive. However moral he may have been, the guy had some degree of culture. History is tough to get a handle on in shame cultures because telling the truth or facts isn’t highly encouraged, but he was definitely far from the worst offender.
or maybe he was just a BADASS who got SWOLE through WANDERING THE EARTH and snorting PROTEIN POWDER off his ASS KICKIN’ WAKIZASHI, getting HIGH AS FUCK on MUSHROOMS he found in the forest and using the resulting SUPERPOWERS to DECAPITATE FOURTEEN YEAR OLD BOYS in duels. truly epic & admirable,,, if he were alive today he would definitely be on joe rogan…
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Sword Saint is also far more prevalent in Chinese mythological fantasy. It doesn’t imply morality or wandering, it references someone who has taken the sword as holy and become something like an enlightened being in regards to the sword. They are essentially a unification of man and sword, and are meant to be utterly peerless in their swordsmanship to the point where armies of likewise magically/super-powered people in their generation are reaped like grass.
General idea is no one wants to mess with a sword saint. They’re crazy. They can be almost monk-like until you do the one thing you didn’t know you weren’t supposed to do. Then all of a sudden you’re staring at your own butt as your body hits the floor a second after your head and they’re out the door to go exterminate everyone who shares your blood in the world.
Yaay, backstory! I think this is the part I’ve been most curious about in the whole history of the comic: What was it Incubus did to take that key that was so heckin bad the demiurges think he went too far?
I think that the major part of the other Demiurges’ disdain for Incubus is that Maya was supposed to get the key that he has, not him. But by the point that Maya could have claimed it, she no longer cared to do so.
So Incubus did.
All the other demiurges know that if Maya wanted it (and Incubus’ head), it would be hers. They know he’s not worthy.
As ar as the story implies Maya did get the key and was using it for quite some time during the second conquest. But she became an alcoholic, Incubus’ throne made of golden cups is undoubtedly hers. At some point Incubus simply stole her key and became a demiurge himself. And Maya chose to remain “habitually drunk”. This is explained in “seeker-of-thrones-4-29”
Like, Solomon’s law explicitly states anyone who can take the key from him in any way they can has the right to do so. Nobody else seems to care enough about rules and regulations to make that a formal rule, but it’s the law of Darwin by which they all live. It’s how they all got their keys in the first place, by taking all the power they could any way they could from everyone who stood in their way. Yet they all despise Incubus especially for apparently doing the same thing.
77 Song of a Machine Grinding Idle Daydreams to Dust
My understanding is that Maya relinquished her key willingly, or at least didn’t put up a fight when Incubus came for it. The fact that she’s alive tells us that force was likely not a factor in how she gave it up and therefore, in the eyes of the demiurges, Incubus didn’t Earn his key. He did not slaughter its former master to claim it.
On the other claw, Mammon bought his key, and except for being long pasr it, we don’t see that level of disdain as is shown to incubus. It’s more than disdain, it’s more repugnance than even gog-agog gets, and bucko, that’s saying something…
“How did you get your key?” I paid for it with centuries of sweat and the blood money I gained in slaughtering my family. It is awash in blood and ink. “Okay, the dragon’s lit. He’s in the club.”
“How did you get your key?” My sister-apprentice got bored of it and left it on her throne of drinking cups so I stuck it in my head. So do I have to sign any papers or- “… This burnout is utter trash. We have to let him in, but I decree that none of us shall like it.”
The Grand Dragon bought his *first* Key. How many Regicides he committed afterwards — and thus, how many Keys he claimed through violence — is never said, but I imagine if someone has 111,111 Keys and killed for most of them that’s still a kingslayer worthy of respect.
By contrast, if Incubus’ conquests were mostly Maya’s uhtil she stepped aside, it’s easy to see why he might be considered a pretender.
I don’t think it’s ever stated, or even implied, that Incubus stole the key, merely that everyone views it as rightfully Maya’s and, on some level, expects her to come back for it. Taken together, I think this shows the two problems everyone has with Incubus:
1) He didn’t steal the key. She just gave it to him, so he never proved his worth.
2) He’s ultimately just a place holder. It’s Maya’s key and Maya’s army. Even after all this time, even INCUBUS still calls it Maya’s army, not his.
In a way, I think things would be better for him if he stole it, because then he would have provably bested Maya and cemented the key as his.
Something I personally enjoy is the implication that a true Master of Cutting has the power to kill even a demiurge. Additionally, that Maya is SO adept with the blade, the other demiurges all assume she will eventually kill Incubus despite him ALSO being a master and having a key of kings.
Like, what the hell did Maya do to get that kind of reputation??
“Like, what the hell did Maya do to get that kind of reputation?”
Did we not read the same comic or what?
A keyless Maya was able to take on an Angel all by herself, for one.
These are true, but there’s still a big gap between “I can cut a palace in half” and “I can kill one of the 7 demiurges.”
Remember that it was a demiurge who was effortlessly keeping that entire palace afloat to begin with, after all. It makes me wonder what Maya could do if she WASN’T habitually drunk…
Item a;
Salami Dave was on a level akin to one of the mad gods before the Seven Part World. He ruined opponents supposedly more powerful than himself. He bested gods in combat and took his Keys. This is to say, a Key does not mean automatic dominion and mortals with sufficient skill may still beat you.
Item b;
Maya has fought a demiurg, her once-equal Incubus, without her Key. He had one. She lived.
Item c;
Cool is more powerful than Key. Maya is just That Cool.
a) Solomon- being trained in what seems to be the deadliest martial art going- bested key-holders, yes, but did he beat any one individual with many thousands of them? At least until HE himself had many thousands of them? I’m not quite sure on the “division of the keys” thing; it seems like Highlander.
b) Maya did indeed fight Incubus, and clearly survived more or less unscathed- but she equally clearly… didn’t kill him. When the opportunity was pretty much RIGHT THERE. So Potato’s right to question why exactly the CERTAINTY (leaving aside that… we know how this story will go; either Maya or Allison- for whatever reason- will kill Incubus should he be for killing) exists that Maya WILL kill Incubus. On in-story feats it’s not set in stone; like someone said, cutting a palace isn’t… cutting Incubus.
c) Maya being cool is true, of course, but that alone shouldn’t mean “she’s definitely going to be able to kill Incubus”- like I say, she IS going to be able to, or is going to have been able to even if she doesn’t (should Allison get the shot instead for whatever reason), but nothing she’s done in-story seems superior to what Incubus should similarly be capable of; if she was markedly superior, he should be dead by now! Also, Allison is very, very much less cool than many other characters, but has THE KEY, so will come out on top. So that logic is debatable.
A master of violence is common within the 777,777 universes.
From the lowest gutters to the highest heavens, masters of the blade, the spear, the first, and more have mastered the art of making each other bleed.
Even then, one can argue that even among the masters of violence, 7 became supreme, and thus the previous state of affairs where the Seven Demiurges each ruled 1/7th of Infinity.
And so, a Master of Violence has at least 6 other peers to contend with at a minimum, and an infinite number at a maximum.
A Master of Cutting only has one enemy. The Great Enemy called “I.”
And as a reminder, none of the Demiurges are named “I.”
I definitely that hypothesis explains the series of events best. Incubus came and challenged her, intending to take the key by force. But enlightened Maya had come to see the key as worthless, so she just offered it to him without. I think Incubus’ pragmatism won out and he accepted, but both to himself and the other demiurges after the fact, it seems like he got it illegitimately and he should have instead cut her down to take it. Even if she put up no resistance, he would have taken the key by his own strength.
This makes sense. All of the demiurges are stuck in some sort of self-made hell. Incubus’s big thing is Ambition, so the idea that he basically got a pity win must be eating him alive.
Oh my gods of many, I’ve been reading this comic for a few years and this comment just made me realize all 7 demiurge each represent one of the seven deadly sins! Ha
I think this too…. Either that or Maya grasped the key, and then put it down, because she didn’t need it or want it to get what she desired.
After all- the Keys are a crutch to some degree- Zoss didn’t need one at the beginning.
Exactly, well put. The thing that I keep wondering is… does it MATTER if Incubus isn’t “worthy? The fact remains, he HAS 111,111 keys just like all the other demiurges (or… did, now Jagganoth has more), so possesses equal notional power. His “worthiness” isn’t really a factor. Are the other demiurges “worthy”, in some spiritual or moral sense? No, they just… fought hard enough and came out on top. Incubus, evidently- however much I dislike him and people of his sort in real life- managed to get what he wanted, perhaps with minimal effort, which by most people’s standards is called “success”.
42 Fragments the Universe Beyond All Reintegration
It matters to Incubus. Therefore, the other demiurges use it to wind him up, hoping to goad him into a mistake. Solomon, who wanted to preserve the pact, was the one who tried to dial down the needling (witness his remarks to Mottom at the concordance).
For all we know, the other demiurges could show disdain for Incubus simply because he was illiterate gutter trash trained by a filthy woman in a barrel. At least, Maya is not that low.
Orphaned Dead Man. Only one left living after his home was slaughtered and was taken to serve the band of killers that killed evreything he knew and was groomed to become like them.
I doubt it. Maya knows damn well Inky’s a sick puppy, and Incubus, for his part, seems a little too focused on his work (of cutting down anybody who says he can’t be king).
Strong “those two guys from a Final Fantasy game” vibes. FF8’s Raijin and Fujin come to mind, though Maya and Incubus seem considerably more blood thirsty.
I really like Young Maya’s look – recognizably the same but quite strikingly different.
I don’t know that I have the lore to say. Maya had previously mentioned that Incubus’ honoring of their master’s, Meti’s, wishes (throwing her body to the dogs after death, was a point of contention between them. Their closeness here would then suggest that it hadn’t happened yet.
However, abandoning her teachings probably also means that Maya wasn’t talking to Métis. So it’s possible that during this breakdown of communication, Métis died and Incubus fed the dogs, only to reveal it later.
Certainly possible, my recall isn’t perfect, and I don’t have the time to go hunting through the comic. I do recall that Maya specifically calls out Incubus for how he treated Meti’s body. Even if he did kill her, I don’t know that we have the information to say that Meti is alive or dead at this point. Presumably the flashback would show us that conflict, but Incubus is exactly the kind of person to have done the deed and then acted like he hadn’t until it was dramatically appropriate to reveal the fact.
I would dare you to mock them. I feel “Pale Bolt” there would be stabby stabby if he even thought you were thinking about him in the wrong way.
Besides. nice names but sound like horse names.
Indeed so, well, Middle anyway. As for example our Earth’s China is Zhōng guó – 中 国 (spaces between the pinyin words, and the 2 pictograms just for clarity), the Middle/Central Country/Kingdom.
Both of them started out in the Yellow City (where Meti had her barrel) in the Middle Kingdom, and joined the Army, rising to generals one believes (certainly Maya), under Au Vam the Pankrator and King (also previous key-bearer, the key that Maya had, and Incubus now has).
Maya’s flashbacks, IMHO, are the lore and back stories are the script that makes the K6BSDs-verse come alive.
No single member of the Seven has a backstory that can compare on what makes Maya interesting.
She’s always been there and has had her backstory parsed out in such a slow, well paced manner. Not to mention whenever she fights it’s wicked. Plus her path towards fully realizing Meti’s teachings and reflecting her as Allison’s teacher, while also having the most interesting and unknown relationship to a Demiurge, is honestly one of the best parts of the comic.
I find it really interesting how easily people pass from one name to another in this world. Maya, Dark Cloud, Mathangi ten Meti (Allison, Kill Six Billion Demons)– the ability to adapt not just physically but metaphysically is a key
They know how to cut hair, they just keep it long because they’re able to strike down anyone foolish enough to bare a blade in their presence to remove any of it. Everything about them is hubris, arrogance, and arrogant hubris.
Dark Cloud and Pale Bolt definitely work well together as names. Very fitting!
Also, upon hearing the name Dark Cloud, I could not help but think of the two games from 2000s with the same name lol
I agree, but the title “Sword Saint” is *chef kiss* just as evocative.
Sword Saint is the typical translation of Kensei, the Japanese term for wandering swordsmen of great skill.
Main issue I see with that, is that Kensei implies a level of morality these two seem to have cast off along with their teacher.
But Inky looks Dynamite in purple.
“Saint” also implies a level of morality that is fully not in play, but the sword has its own morality—distinct from the normal kind—as well we have seen.
i’d like to point out that most real “saints” were actually truly horrible people. mother teresa, for example, housed dying people until two of them “miraculously” survived on their own despite claiming it was to provide medical care. when she got her cancer diagnosis, she immediately got the best treatment medicine could buy. she was a fucking murderous and degenerate hypocrite.
Really?
I’m not big on venerating people, but calling Mother Theresa “a fucking murderous and degenerate hypocrite” is as disingenuous as calling her a saint. It seem like for the most part she was genuinely trying to help with the limited means and medical knowledge that were available to her, and it’s not like the people she cared for would be able to get better treatment anywhere else at the time. She was a zealot, that’s for sure, but at least she was a zealot trying to do good things.
Maybe systematically boiling people down to “saints” and “monsters” is just not a good idea in 99% of cases.
Nah, I would call her some pretty bad names. If you have the patience for a podcast, I do recommend Respect The Dead’s episode on her. Tl;dr she believed that being next to suffering was holy & taught a lesson or something and so as a result the people in her “care” got barely any help at all.
Most of the misinformation about Mother Teresa comes from Christopher Hitchens who did a hit piece on her, which has been endlessly repeated. The complaints tend to center around a few points.
1. She didn’t give people in pain anesthesia. (This is often tied to the ‘suffering brings people closer to God’ quote.)
2. People in her care died a lot.
3. Money donated to Mother Teresa went to the Catholic Church.
The answers to these complaints:
1. Anesthesia was heavily regulated in India where she worked, and nuns are not anesthesiologists. Her comments about suffering bringing people closer to God are intended to bring comfort to those who are suffering and help them find meaning in their lives.
2. Nuns are not doctors. Mother Teresa did not run a hospital; she took people who were dying in gutters, gave them basic medical attention, and let them die with dignity in accordance with their faith. (Muslims were read the Quran, etc.)
3. She was a nun who took a vow of poverty. Of course it went to the Church.
It has been widely reported that Mother Teresa exploited people for selfish and religious reasons. Medical negligence is a crime and what she did was far worse than negligence, potentially violating human rights. Despite recieving millions in donations, she did nothing to improve the conditions of the people under her care. She did not care about helping people.
The Catholic church is a deeply corrupt organisation. Even if it wasn’t, many of its principles are harmful or discriminatory. Mother Teresa also associated with criminals and fascists, and defended pedophiles.
Mother Theresa is no Mary Seacole….that’s for sure.
Being a zealot doesn’t excuse anything. If I blow your brains out after taking your confession under the delusion that it’s a good act because I assured you your place in Heaven, am I still a good person?
Outcomes matter along with intent.
Take manslaughter as a crime category for instance. The existence of it as a category of wrongdoing a person can commit is extremely uncontroversial. If intent didn’t matter, there’d be no such thing. It’d just be murder every time a person causes another’s death outside self defense. But if outcome didn’t matter, nobody would ever be charged with manslaughter at all.
I didn’t say being a zealot excused anything, more like the opposite – despite being a zealot, she at least helped people.
I guess the issue with mother Theresa is that we could debate whether the outcome of her action was actually positive. But like it’s been mentioned above it sounds like she gave people who were dying in the gutter a small chance at recovery and at the very least some form of care and comfort as they passed. Then again, like with most historical figures, it all depends on how you look at it and who you ask.
If only she had been Mother Theresa, Sword Saint, we could have titled-checked her objectively based on the amount of ass she kicked. Truly a shame.
This conversation reminds me of one the late Fernando Espinosa Sr. once told me. He said that his father was very racist against black people, and at his father’s funeral, some black men came up to him and asked, “You know your dad was really racist, right?” Fernando said that he thought he was going to be killed. “Yes”, he replied.
“Well, when the foreman made rules to make us work harder and get paid less, he stood up for us and made sure we weren’t treated different.”
This is the best I can remember this story, so it’s not word-for-word, plus it probably wasn’t from him either. But I think the point stands.
Mother Terisa was in fact a murderous degenerate. Many of the most prolific serial murderers in human history did so using a brutal combination of unaccountability and control over hospital spaces. There’s several good reasons why only teams of doctors and nurses should be broadly trusted.
Again though, she was not pretending to be managing a hospital, she was giving last-resort care to people who wouldn’t be greeted anywhere else. It’s not like she was preventing them to get better care, they couldn’t.
This is true, but she was sold to the public as something she wasn’t. A huge amount of money went to her that could have been better spent on genuine care, and large proportions of that went towards missionary work rather than charity. To what extent that’s her fault vs. the church vs. people’s apathy and ignorance is an open question.
And the millions of dollars she received went to a corrupt organization that has systematically covered up mass killings of indigenous women and children at its residential schools in Canada and molestation of children by its priests around the world.
Can you please provide a source for your acusations?
Google is free.
In these comments; nerds who do literally nothing for no one ever have strong opinions on topics they heard things about.
*nibble nibble*
(deep baritone voice)
THAT’S THE REALEST GODDAMN THING I HEARD ALL DAY
*nibble nibble*
Can we please not reopen the discussion on Mother Teresa? I’m a Bengali living in Kolkata and I am sick to death of people taking sides on her. If you must know, I think she did more harm than good, but part of that was because of toxic institutions and the other part was because of personal ambition, so let’s just let the dead lie, shall we?
Was Mother Teresa a degenerate, the longest thread on the internet, closed down by moderators after six billion posts
The Sword Logic Does Not Speak, It Sings.
Aiat
misaligned in you point of view you mean
Musashi was called Kensei, I believe, and he was mainly interested in his own career as a duellist, with morals taking a back seat.
Actually no, he was actually more famous as a painter than a duelist when he was alive. However moral he may have been, the guy had some degree of culture. History is tough to get a handle on in shame cultures because telling the truth or facts isn’t highly encouraged, but he was definitely far from the worst offender.
or maybe he was just a BADASS who got SWOLE through WANDERING THE EARTH and snorting PROTEIN POWDER off his ASS KICKIN’ WAKIZASHI, getting HIGH AS FUCK on MUSHROOMS he found in the forest and using the resulting SUPERPOWERS to DECAPITATE FOURTEEN YEAR OLD BOYS in duels. truly epic & admirable,,, if he were alive today he would definitely be on joe rogan…
It implies a CLAIM to morality that may or may not be valid
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I banish thee, filthy one. Return now to the void whence thou comest from.
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you gog-agoggin’ me rn??
Sword Saint is also far more prevalent in Chinese mythological fantasy. It doesn’t imply morality or wandering, it references someone who has taken the sword as holy and become something like an enlightened being in regards to the sword. They are essentially a unification of man and sword, and are meant to be utterly peerless in their swordsmanship to the point where armies of likewise magically/super-powered people in their generation are reaped like grass.
General idea is no one wants to mess with a sword saint. They’re crazy. They can be almost monk-like until you do the one thing you didn’t know you weren’t supposed to do. Then all of a sudden you’re staring at your own butt as your body hits the floor a second after your head and they’re out the door to go exterminate everyone who shares your blood in the world.
Yaay, backstory! I think this is the part I’ve been most curious about in the whole history of the comic: What was it Incubus did to take that key that was so heckin bad the demiurges think he went too far?
I think that the major part of the other Demiurges’ disdain for Incubus is that Maya was supposed to get the key that he has, not him. But by the point that Maya could have claimed it, she no longer cared to do so.
So Incubus did.
All the other demiurges know that if Maya wanted it (and Incubus’ head), it would be hers. They know he’s not worthy.
As ar as the story implies Maya did get the key and was using it for quite some time during the second conquest. But she became an alcoholic, Incubus’ throne made of golden cups is undoubtedly hers. At some point Incubus simply stole her key and became a demiurge himself. And Maya chose to remain “habitually drunk”. This is explained in “seeker-of-thrones-4-29”
But what we don’t know is what’s so bad about that.
Like, Solomon’s law explicitly states anyone who can take the key from him in any way they can has the right to do so. Nobody else seems to care enough about rules and regulations to make that a formal rule, but it’s the law of Darwin by which they all live. It’s how they all got their keys in the first place, by taking all the power they could any way they could from everyone who stood in their way. Yet they all despise Incubus especially for apparently doing the same thing.
My understanding is that Maya relinquished her key willingly, or at least didn’t put up a fight when Incubus came for it. The fact that she’s alive tells us that force was likely not a factor in how she gave it up and therefore, in the eyes of the demiurges, Incubus didn’t Earn his key. He did not slaughter its former master to claim it.
On the other claw, Mammon bought his key, and except for being long pasr it, we don’t see that level of disdain as is shown to incubus. It’s more than disdain, it’s more repugnance than even gog-agog gets, and bucko, that’s saying something…
Right, but Mammon paid for that key with the strength of his wallet, whereas Incubus seems to have gained his by some kind of charitable disdain.
Yeah, there’s some difference between how Mammon and Incubus. Mammon is treated seriously, if as a somewhat weaker member of them.
They HATE Incubus though.
Maya has a red stone set in her forehead and the only other character with that Cio, who also had a Key.
“How did you get your key?” I paid for it with centuries of sweat and the blood money I gained in slaughtering my family. It is awash in blood and ink. “Okay, the dragon’s lit. He’s in the club.”
“How did you get your key?” My sister-apprentice got bored of it and left it on her throne of drinking cups so I stuck it in my head. So do I have to sign any papers or- “… This burnout is utter trash. We have to let him in, but I decree that none of us shall like it.”
The Grand Dragon bought his *first* Key. How many Regicides he committed afterwards — and thus, how many Keys he claimed through violence — is never said, but I imagine if someone has 111,111 Keys and killed for most of them that’s still a kingslayer worthy of respect.
By contrast, if Incubus’ conquests were mostly Maya’s uhtil she stepped aside, it’s easy to see why he might be considered a pretender.
I don’t think it’s ever stated, or even implied, that Incubus stole the key, merely that everyone views it as rightfully Maya’s and, on some level, expects her to come back for it. Taken together, I think this shows the two problems everyone has with Incubus:
1) He didn’t steal the key. She just gave it to him, so he never proved his worth.
2) He’s ultimately just a place holder. It’s Maya’s key and Maya’s army. Even after all this time, even INCUBUS still calls it Maya’s army, not his.
In a way, I think things would be better for him if he stole it, because then he would have provably bested Maya and cemented the key as his.
Something I personally enjoy is the implication that a true Master of Cutting has the power to kill even a demiurge. Additionally, that Maya is SO adept with the blade, the other demiurges all assume she will eventually kill Incubus despite him ALSO being a master and having a key of kings.
Like, what the hell did Maya do to get that kind of reputation??
“Like, what the hell did Maya do to get that kind of reputation?”
Did we not read the same comic or what?
A keyless Maya was able to take on an Angel all by herself, for one.
And cut an entire floating palace in half.
These are true, but there’s still a big gap between “I can cut a palace in half” and “I can kill one of the 7 demiurges.”
Remember that it was a demiurge who was effortlessly keeping that entire palace afloat to begin with, after all. It makes me wonder what Maya could do if she WASN’T habitually drunk…
Item a;
Salami Dave was on a level akin to one of the mad gods before the Seven Part World. He ruined opponents supposedly more powerful than himself. He bested gods in combat and took his Keys. This is to say, a Key does not mean automatic dominion and mortals with sufficient skill may still beat you.
Item b;
Maya has fought a demiurg, her once-equal Incubus, without her Key. He had one. She lived.
Item c;
Cool is more powerful than Key. Maya is just That Cool.
a) Solomon- being trained in what seems to be the deadliest martial art going- bested key-holders, yes, but did he beat any one individual with many thousands of them? At least until HE himself had many thousands of them? I’m not quite sure on the “division of the keys” thing; it seems like Highlander.
b) Maya did indeed fight Incubus, and clearly survived more or less unscathed- but she equally clearly… didn’t kill him. When the opportunity was pretty much RIGHT THERE. So Potato’s right to question why exactly the CERTAINTY (leaving aside that… we know how this story will go; either Maya or Allison- for whatever reason- will kill Incubus should he be for killing) exists that Maya WILL kill Incubus. On in-story feats it’s not set in stone; like someone said, cutting a palace isn’t… cutting Incubus.
c) Maya being cool is true, of course, but that alone shouldn’t mean “she’s definitely going to be able to kill Incubus”- like I say, she IS going to be able to, or is going to have been able to even if she doesn’t (should Allison get the shot instead for whatever reason), but nothing she’s done in-story seems superior to what Incubus should similarly be capable of; if she was markedly superior, he should be dead by now! Also, Allison is very, very much less cool than many other characters, but has THE KEY, so will come out on top. So that logic is debatable.
A master of violence is common within the 777,777 universes.
From the lowest gutters to the highest heavens, masters of the blade, the spear, the first, and more have mastered the art of making each other bleed.
Even then, one can argue that even among the masters of violence, 7 became supreme, and thus the previous state of affairs where the Seven Demiurges each ruled 1/7th of Infinity.
And so, a Master of Violence has at least 6 other peers to contend with at a minimum, and an infinite number at a maximum.
A Master of Cutting only has one enemy. The Great Enemy called “I.”
And as a reminder, none of the Demiurges are named “I.”
I definitely that hypothesis explains the series of events best. Incubus came and challenged her, intending to take the key by force. But enlightened Maya had come to see the key as worthless, so she just offered it to him without. I think Incubus’ pragmatism won out and he accepted, but both to himself and the other demiurges after the fact, it seems like he got it illegitimately and he should have instead cut her down to take it. Even if she put up no resistance, he would have taken the key by his own strength.
This makes sense. All of the demiurges are stuck in some sort of self-made hell. Incubus’s big thing is Ambition, so the idea that he basically got a pity win must be eating him alive.
Oh my gods of many, I’ve been reading this comic for a few years and this comment just made me realize all 7 demiurge each represent one of the seven deadly sins! Ha
I think this too…. Either that or Maya grasped the key, and then put it down, because she didn’t need it or want it to get what she desired.
After all- the Keys are a crutch to some degree- Zoss didn’t need one at the beginning.
All the other demiurges laughed and called him names.
And wouldn’t let him join in their demiurge games.
A very minor quibble, though I mostly agree with your read.
Incubus isn’t worthy of his key, that’s true. He’s a grasping pretender to ultimate power.
But the real issue is that his seat at the Big Table is a constant reminder to the other Six that SO. ARE. THEY
Exactly, well put. The thing that I keep wondering is… does it MATTER if Incubus isn’t “worthy? The fact remains, he HAS 111,111 keys just like all the other demiurges (or… did, now Jagganoth has more), so possesses equal notional power. His “worthiness” isn’t really a factor. Are the other demiurges “worthy”, in some spiritual or moral sense? No, they just… fought hard enough and came out on top. Incubus, evidently- however much I dislike him and people of his sort in real life- managed to get what he wanted, perhaps with minimal effort, which by most people’s standards is called “success”.
It matters to Incubus. Therefore, the other demiurges use it to wind him up, hoping to goad him into a mistake. Solomon, who wanted to preserve the pact, was the one who tried to dial down the needling (witness his remarks to Mottom at the concordance).
For all we know, the other demiurges could show disdain for Incubus simply because he was illiterate gutter trash trained by a filthy woman in a barrel. At least, Maya is not that low.
I dunno, Jagganoth started pretty low on the totem pole.
Wasn’t he a lord?
Orphaned Dead Man. Only one left living after his home was slaughtered and was taken to serve the band of killers that killed evreything he knew and was groomed to become like them.
An enslaved child solider who survived only to decide that existence should be ended
slayyy
I think the real question everyone wants answered is that did they bone while traveling together? My shipping sense tells me “yes”
Given that Maya describes them as “like siblings”, I for one hope that your shipping sense has failed you in this instance…
agreed complitly!
I fear that your sense of horny is even stronger than Maya’s desire to run Incubus through with a sword, even in their relative youth.
Their lack of romantic chemistry is not only palpable, it is almost suffocating.
I doubt it. Maya knows damn well Inky’s a sick puppy, and Incubus, for his part, seems a little too focused on his work (of cutting down anybody who says he can’t be king).
Hype.
Strong “those two guys from a Final Fantasy game” vibes. FF8’s Raijin and Fujin come to mind, though Maya and Incubus seem considerably more blood thirsty.
I really like Young Maya’s look – recognizably the same but quite strikingly different.
Am I right to assume Meti had not died still, despite the fact that they had abandoned their master’s teachings?
I don’t know that I have the lore to say. Maya had previously mentioned that Incubus’ honoring of their master’s, Meti’s, wishes (throwing her body to the dogs after death, was a point of contention between them. Their closeness here would then suggest that it hadn’t happened yet.
However, abandoning her teachings probably also means that Maya wasn’t talking to Métis. So it’s possible that during this breakdown of communication, Métis died and Incubus fed the dogs, only to reveal it later.
I think the big deal was that Incubus killed her.
Certainly possible, my recall isn’t perfect, and I don’t have the time to go hunting through the comic. I do recall that Maya specifically calls out Incubus for how he treated Meti’s body. Even if he did kill her, I don’t know that we have the information to say that Meti is alive or dead at this point. Presumably the flashback would show us that conflict, but Incubus is exactly the kind of person to have done the deed and then acted like he hadn’t until it was dramatically appropriate to reveal the fact.
Hiya, Maya!
I imagine the smell of corpses is entirely coincidental! There must be corpse flowers blowing nearby is all
The prelude to hubris
oh god they named themselves didnt they
They were sent to relieve a garrison of twenty thousand men. The two of them.
I think they were already at a point where they could name themselves and get away with it.
True royalty is to be a fucking chuuni-ass dweeb
How else could one master the sword?
True royalty is to have the Stanley Kubrick Stare.
I would dare you to mock them. I feel “Pale Bolt” there would be stabby stabby if he even thought you were thinking about him in the wrong way.
Besides. nice names but sound like horse names.
Pale Bolt is a fine name for a swordsman, but it becomes somewhat embarassing in the bedroom.
*Little Green Bag plays*
This strikes me more like the guys trailing Orange.
OOGA CHACKA OOGA OOGA OOGA CHACKA
Only 27 and 12. They can’t have trained for much more than a decade with Meti. If they even trained that long.
Likely a good indication that it won’t take long for Allison to learn all she needs
Oh man, isn’t that the insignia of the Middle Army on Inky?
Indeed so, well, Middle anyway. As for example our Earth’s China is Zhōng guó – 中 国 (spaces between the pinyin words, and the 2 pictograms just for clarity), the Middle/Central Country/Kingdom.
Both of them started out in the Yellow City (where Meti had her barrel) in the Middle Kingdom, and joined the Army, rising to generals one believes (certainly Maya), under Au Vam the Pankrator and King (also previous key-bearer, the key that Maya had, and Incubus now has).
Tales from Auntie!!!!
Two swords ring through air:
In rhythm, without melody,
while pride lured in.
Two swords dance in blood:
Vibrato in watching men fall,
Finale in death.
Maya’s flashbacks, IMHO, are the lore and back stories are the script that makes the K6BSDs-verse come alive.
No single member of the Seven has a backstory that can compare on what makes Maya interesting.
She’s always been there and has had her backstory parsed out in such a slow, well paced manner. Not to mention whenever she fights it’s wicked. Plus her path towards fully realizing Meti’s teachings and reflecting her as Allison’s teacher, while also having the most interesting and unknown relationship to a Demiurge, is honestly one of the best parts of the comic.
off to a convention cosplaying as their ocs
Meti DID tell them to shave their heads.
My goodness, Maya’s here is immaculate! The two of them look quite neat, and quite strong.
And quite foolish!
Behind every gay person is a gayer, more evil gay person.
Stands be like:
And inside that gay person are two wolves…
One is gay
The other one is also gay
They love each other very much
Well, don’t they make an imposing sight.
This is enough to justify the new book, I say
Two foolish slaves to the sword.
The Gate of Gamion looks like a giant snail
I find it really interesting how easily people pass from one name to another in this world. Maya, Dark Cloud, Mathangi ten Meti (Allison, Kill Six Billion Demons)– the ability to adapt not just physically but metaphysically is a key
You’d think the guy who mastered the sword would know how to cut hair.
They know how to cut hair, they just keep it long because they’re able to strike down anyone foolish enough to bare a blade in their presence to remove any of it. Everything about them is hubris, arrogance, and arrogant hubris.
thats the first lesson, cut your own hair with a rusty blade
Flashback time!