BREAKER OF INFINITIES 1-5
Chapter: 1
“Here is a useful fact: inside every man is his death, wearing him like a thinning skin. Eventually his death will hollow him out like an old glove and replace him. It is no shame to release a man’s death, but rather an honor. His death is a much more permanent shape than he will ever take in life.
Regard each death with respect, all you dead men. Otherwise you will forget yourselves.”
-Jantris, Storm-born
Whoop. That’s a strange plot twist…
Nobody wears a torn sheet better than Solomon.
Hand away the only thing that kept her and her friends alive just now to the person who’s trying to kill all of them? Sure, sounds like a plan.
(looks like the threading got messed up)
But is that what he means?
“I have need of your strength, give it to me.”
That can be read as a demand for the Key, but it can just as easily be read as him asking for her help.
Is he referring to the Key at all? He never actually mentions it by name. It’s possible, though improbable, that he’s helping for ALLISON’s strength, and not the strength of the glowing stone in her head.
When dealing with anyone who’s planning mass devastation, it’s best to *not* assume noble intent or to charitably interpret their demands.
This is kill six billion demons. I wouldn’t be sure about that, murder is a major thing for the saints in this universe
How quickly we forget the Angel of Blessed Bosoms.
Yeah that was M.Night Shyamalan levels of “Wa-ho! what a twist!”
It was kind of foreshadowed by which side he was on in the prophecy mural shown in the first demiurge meeting.
And Lo!
The prophecy page!
KSBD 4-77 (or is that KSBD 4-78?)
killsixbilliondemons.com/comic/ksbd-4-77/
It’s 78. Also of note is the positions of the combatants. Jadis and Solomon are both in immediate opposition to Jagganoth, while Incubus is most readily opposed by a student of his former teacher. Of course, this makes Allison’s opponent much more interesting.
Hold up, there is no 4-78. I just checked and it goes right from 4-77 to 4-79
The man is tired.
He’s spent aeons running from petty politics by chasing war. He must be feeling some terrible godly regret over his life choices.
With the helm he is a beast, but without it he is a man. One with thoughts and feelings, hopes and dreams.
No-one craves annihilation for annihilation’s sake…
Then again, the fellow just blew up hundreds of thousands of people just to make a snazzy entrance, so perhaps we shouldn’t give him the benefit of the doubt JUST yet, eh?
Almost the same scars…
Do you think it means something, or the author is just using the same reference material for both characters?
We know it means something.
Allison got those scars by being a bit more incubus.
We know jagganoth hangs out with incubus.
It is my personal theory that jagganoth is the body of Zoss, the spirit of Zoss being the thing giving allison advice.
What this means for the plot we will have yet to see
So the red god is the first one to acknowledge that Alison is here. I’m not sure how she will react to his request. Ask for more information, or reject it out of hand?
I’m not sure I’d call that a “request”.
That is a request in much the same way that someone who pulls a gun on your and tells you to give them all your money is requesting financial assistance.
it’s a nice offer, but Rage cannot be allowed to rule the Self any more than lust or envy or the rest
even if it is the strongest and best of all of them. it’s purity is tempting indeed. anyone if you wanted the secret of dying to trash mobs you’d be well on your way by following that path
Uh-oh! Thought he was just going to be a big strong jerk but it turns out he’s actually the one person who has taken the more obvious reading of “reach heaven through violence” completely to heart.
In case you haven’t seen it, in some of the supplemental material it’s been explained that Jagganoth is more than just a brute fighter. For example, it was described how he was one of the few demi-urges that actually adopted and reverse-engineered technology from conquered worlds and added it to his own arsenal. It was nearly all weapons and machines for war, but still he’s smarter than you might think at first glance.
It’s super cool how that’s in the series for us to see so that this isn’t some out of nowhere reveal.
I can’t tell for 100% certain if you’re being sarcastic or not….
But anyway, the extra info isn’t really necessary for understanding the story. And depending on how you feel, it may not even add that much. It’s like how you can still enjoy LotR, even if you haven’t read The Silmarillion.
If you DIDN’T know the extra background info about Jaggonoth, IMO the only difference is that you’re finding out NOW that he’s deeper than he first appears, instead of months or years or however long ago you read that one Tumblr-post. It makes the story feel a little different, maybe, but not necessarily better or worse.
Oh, for gods sakes.
There are paragraphs of lore posted below every update, it’s not hidden, secret knowledge.
And none of it, as has been said before, changes the story.
Delving into it can get you excited about predicting what people will do or why but the story stands on its own coherently.
He’s been depicted, in comic, managing a tank factory.
Where is this “supplemental material” you speak of?
The top of the page has links, even to the author’s Q/A pages.
Much is revealed.
Gee… I wonder if she will just hand the key over.
When Solomon says “butcher”, the word is dripping with contempt. And how does Jagganoth respond? He ignores the tiny baby man and talks to Alison instead.
Should a butcher keep any sympathy for the meat he slaughters?
All the best butchers do, if one does not care for the meat they will end up with less of it.
I find no sympathy in efficiency. I would find sympathy in, say, not slaughtering. If you must, though, I do understand the idea of professionalism.
As in “professional pride and integrity forces me to care for the proper cutting of this little pri-I mean, slab of meat.”
Butcher Pete did.
interesting that a butcher should have contempt for another butcher
that’s business, baby.
Solomon’s halo looks surprised and affronted at being ignored.
Oh and execrated?, execrated from history? One knows the sentiment behind Solomon’s words, but one is not familiar with being abhorred from history; must be something uniquely demiurgical.
A tradition of those of Aegypt, also followed by those of the great City of the Tiber.
After the hated one’s death is encompassed, his name is erased from all history; any likenesses are destroyed and any place his name is carved upon a building or a stelae it is chiseled out. When the process is through the hated one’s reign will be disappeared and all his words and deeds vanished like the dew. The records of the times will flow from his predecessor to his successor with only a sullen void between.
Thus is execration.
The execration in Egypt and the Middle East is interesting is it not. But surely the execration texts or lists of enemies or people hated or to be cursed, were created – on tablet, statuette or vessel of some ilk which was then broken – the ritual supposed to curse or affect the abhorred person or persons in some fashion. Often an enemy of the pharoah may be overseas or in another country so not even dead, nor there to be executed.
The destruction, erasing or excision of all mentions of name and likenesses would be separate, subsequent to and extra to the execration / ritualised cursing – erasing from all history as you say, though not all instances of name nor likeness would necessarily be available to be destroyed either.
His name is never mentioned, his portrait is turned to the wall, his membership at his club is revoked, he is sent to govern one of the lesser colonies like New South Wales.
Well, of course. The halo of Pride hates nothing more than to be thought irrelevant. Jadis’s halo of Sloth may hate being forced to act nearly as much.
In this context, “butcher” actually means “brother”, because all of the Seven are irredeemable butchers of lives beyond count, and the only ones who can understand each other because of that, like a self-loathing, utterly dysfunctional family.
He’s Yaun??? The dude we’ve been learning about???? This whole time!!!!
That… that fits all too well.
We have Jagganoth’s backstory and we did not know it. One has to doff one’s hat.
yeah, that’s been pretty clear for a minute now. we were told that Jagganoth was a child soldier who has been broken by his experiences to the point he only craves omnicide, and oh hey, Abbadon’s telling us a cool story about a kid who’s having all humanity beaten out of him and replaced only with a lust for death
It also explains why Incubus is willing to work with him.
Called it.
Feel like that entrance did not support his case. He’d best have a convincing followup or this request is going to considered as long as Gog-Agog’s “being me is really fun” offer.
Perhaps it’s more of a “see what I just did? give it to me or I’ll do it again”
Or maybe “See what I just did? I’ll have to do it again, and again, and again. A myriad times among hundreds thousands of worlds. It brings me no joy but I’ll do it unless you give me the power to do my work in one fell swoop.”
I think only Incubus has successfully made a “sale” out of all the demiurges so far.
Mottom: Immortality! Riches! All my subjects!
Mammon: You can try to kill me but it’s hard.
Gog: Eat this worm and become me! Or Solomon’s Empire, that works too.
Solomon: One wish, though stipulations apply.
Jagganoth: (Whatever… he just did)
Jadis: (Though we never got to see her interact with Allison yet, we can probably assume it’s along the lines of “kill me, please”)
Incubus: I’ll help you unlock all your power! (Just don’t read the fine print…)
Allison: Okay sold.
seven of you”gods” and the fuckboi with a sword made the closest thing to a good offer… sad
I think this is the first time we’ve seen Jagganoth’s face when he hasn’t been breathing flames of war.
May I also say that I quite like how each of the Seven embody their Sin at a first look, but when you look deeper you find the opposite? Mottom, who draws an endless amount of food and other treasures, but consumes little and is trapped by the expectations her subjects hold. Jadis, slothfully lying entombed in her crystal, but was trapped by trying to work harder than a god. And now Jagganoth. Burning with a wrath that could sterilize the wheel, yet all he wants is for it to end.
No, we have seen him without his helmet in at least 2 flashback panels in the earlier chapters.
In that event, it would be more accurate to say that their sins ‘trap’. Them. Solomon too, is trapped by Pride. He cannot allow himself to be succeeded by someone less than his standard of power, even though he desperately wants to.
The nature of the Seven Deadly Sins is not that of a grave and terrible sin on it’s own. They are deadly because they serve as gateways to *other* sins, a seed of infestation if you would.
Hence, Mottom’s ‘Gluttony’ leads her deeper into depravity, Solomon’s Pride leads further into blood being spilled every tournament and Jaggannoth’s wrath…probably leads to a lot of people dying horribly.
I like these analyses.
Though I am left to wonder how this line of thought might be applied to Gog Agog who, as far as we know, is inhuman in nature.
Gog-Agog’s inhuman nature is the foundation of her envy. Forever wanting more faces, more recognition—a pile of worms that did not envy us wouldn’t seek to *be* us.
Pretty much this, yes. One has to note the fact that Gog is less of a single entity/will and more of a mass of worms spread throughout Throne.
I think Gog’s thing is that she doesn’t want to be [something in particular] but rather, always wants to be something [else] apart from what she currently is.
Hence, Gog may be doomed to never be satisfied with what Gog is at any given time, because it’s always someone else that is that one thing Gog wants to be. Perhaps. We do not yet know.
Gog wants to be More.
(More what?)
Yes.
All.
Gog wants to be it all.
Now that’s a fascinating idea! Imagine Gog undergoing an apotheosis like White Chain’s. Perhaps she could become a single human?
While we are on the topic, why does Gog seem to identify as human when she clearly is not? And for that matter, why female?
My reading of the sins is that the act around which they revolve is not, in or of itself, a crime, except when it is done to excess.
Gluttony is just an excess of indulging your hunger; Wrath is just an excess of indulging your anger; Sloth is just an excess of indulging your exhaustion – etc.
When done in moderation, these are not sins at all, they’re just the natural motions of life. Indulging in excess is the true sin, in this mode of thought – and as sins go, there is only the one. It’s merely flavored with different failures of self-regulation.
This is, of course, assuming the Church’s historical definition of a “sin” can be interpreted in ways that are philosophically-reasonable rather than in a way designed to guilt-trip the masses into subservience.
The Seven Deadly Sins were originally seven distractions from study, noted in a treatise for monks needing to improve their meditations. Only later were they reworked as something to scare the laity.
Originally, they were meant to be seen as infra-expressions of the seven planetary spheres that correspond to powers over the parts of our being as humans.
Acedia, sloth, is not mere indulgence. Where other sins take desire for something much too far, sloth was defined by an utter *lack* of desire. The soul wants, this is healthy. Acedia is what happens when you cease to want. A malaise of the soul, an utter emptiness, sapping the will to do… anything.
The other sins are dangerous because they feed themselves. Wrath loves wrath, lust loves lust, and indulgence leads to more desire. Acedia is dangerous because it does not need to feed. It is misery. There is no enjoyment to be found in true acedia. But in robbing one of their will, the very thing necessary to break free of it, acedia binds itself tightly to those possessed of it.
Sounds like someone trying to define/describe depression.
Sounds Like someone needed anti depressants to me.
This has been informative and entertaining. Thanks!
When Buddha sat under the Bodhi tree and relinquished all desire, he was actually just being slothful.
Maybe he ripped his pants and didn’t want people to see.
“Give it to me”… He’s asking to released…
Demanding.
“Give it to me… That thing, your dark soul…”
War without purpose is gluttony. War in search of oblivion is divine. What purpose is there behind endless suffering without enlightenment? The more compassionate path is oblivion. Jag is on the path.
Jaganoth taking off his helmet is the equivalent of bearded guy shaving Ya beard
He looks like a sad, beaten dog
So disappointed. I thought those tusks on his mask were his real teeth.
Solomon makes for scissors that could scythe through armies effortlessly.
Jagganoth fits well the role of rock upon which scissors are both sharpened and if not careful… snapped.
Gog-Agog though, paper can certainly wrap itself around a rock, yet paper tears, and paper can be cut.
Gog-Agog is the ocean, and all the rest are hoping for calm seas and clear skies.
Pretty sure that Gog-Agog is Gog-Agog… and not Ocean.
But Ocean could be Gog-Agog.
Lies and slander. The Ocean is unbounded and eternal. The mass will soon die.
Solomon speaks with an authority he does not have. I wonder if he really thinks he has the backing of the others.
What choice does he have? He has to present an unified front to even have a chance.
He has every authority to invoke the pact. It’s like NATO, any member can invoke the pact if they believe they have good cause.
The question is whether the others will honour the pact. It definitely looks like Incubus and Mammon will.
But we know that Incubus is in cahoots with Jagganoth.
Was. WAS in cahoots with Jagganoth. With him bitching about it being too soon, he might just turn right around and shank his former partner.
Incubus is in it with only one single person, Incubus. If he decides the plan is untenable because Jagganoth attacked ‘too soon’ and ruined the chances of whatever plan they had he will happily break things off with him. Probably while weaving a tale of having cleverly pushed the red god into making his move too soon by pretending to be his ally and luring him into a situation that mathematically proves 6 demiurges+1 team Allison > 1 Jagganoth thereby saving the wheel from destruction and proving his worth to his fellows.
The “cahoots” most likely only extended to the point of doublecrossing him once he was exhausted by beating all other demiurges. Jag wants oblivion, Incubus wants dominion. They are entirely incompatible.
Inkyboy wants revenge. It’s not the same thing. As a kid, he was willing to scalp himself more or less for a chance to be Meti’s apprentice. And he tried to do everything she wanted. Even when he killed her and fed her body to the dogs, that’s what she had said she wanted. But Meti never wanted him as an apprentice, only Maya. Incubus became one of the Seven, yet he’s the only one who’s not accepted as their equal because he got his Key from Maya. Strange, since Mammon bought his Key and Mottom stole hers from her husband. what makes Incubus different? But he’s clearly angry at just about everyone and aching for revenge.
Maybe, but Inky while he is acting out of spite, i would expect that he’s playing to win. Heck, he hates Jaggy too, so he wouldn’t want him to win. I imagine that Inky thought that by the time Jaggy killed the others, Allison would have obtained enough control over her power to take him out. After which I think Inky had a way of dealing with Allison despite her power
A giant purplish man who sees it as his duty to carry out omnicide, and seeks to slay the lords of Infinity in order to collect a bunch of Stones?
Gog-Agog, you’re the closest thing to an ant god we have. She knows the distasteful task she will have to perform shortly.
Dunno. I mean, Solomon is clearly the more purplish of them both right now.
I’ma need you to log out and never come back.
This post made ME want to commit omnicide.
The crux is seen, high on the wall
you could reach it, if you were tall,
But when you get there you will fall.
Allison: …no?
One has to wonder how Jagg means to follow up on the abstaining from bloodshed promise when destroying the universe is his work.
It sounds to me he is asking her to be strong and kill him, taking his key and therefore becoming even greater than Zoss… Anybody else feel this way?
Previously we were told that Jagganoth was as strong as the other members of the Seven combined, so it’s strange that he would ask for Allison’s power. Even stranger is his claim that it would save many lives- I thought the dude wanted to kill literally everything in the multiverse?
Well if he is “only” as strong as them combined, it implies a tie and a difficult battle, so he wants an advantage and loss of life is just a way to pitch it to Alisson.
Notice the comma “…save many lives, here”, especially in the context of the Jantris quote. Death will happen to everything and Jagganoth will use the tools that he needs to use. This here is where the Universal War can be reignited spreading like wildfire and engulfing worlds in a wave of slaughter and terror. Or Jagganoth could get the key and with that power none of the other demiurges would probably even dare to stand in his way whether he could complete his work in the blink of an eye or whether he would need to go back and meditate on how to use this gift to best achieve his goal.
I’m guessing it’s totally a Thanos situation. Everything must die, but not everyone needs to suffer, and Jagganoth clearly has no interest in prolonging this a second more than he must. If Allison is willing to give him the power to snap his fingers and end Creation now, immediately and painlessly, in his view that is massively preferable to any possible alternative, for everyone.
It has been mentioned by Abbadon that both Jag and Jugs understand the universe a bit ‘more’.
Juggs had a knowledge of Zoss’ time loops… so perhaps it is possible that Jag does as well? In that sense, it is possible he sees the killing of everything and everyone as more humane than allowing them to continue existing.
Or perhaps it is a more standard reply: If Alison doesn’t give him the key, a lot of people will die slowly and horribly over a protracted war. The alternative is more… ‘humane’ if there is any humanity in the extinction of all life.
Interesting thought, but Jagganoth said “save many lives”, not “prevent much suffering”. To conflate the two ideas would be a bit of a stretch.
That’s a giant “Ooof”
Is Yaun Ten Jantris Jagganoth’s name, or is it some ceremonial statement made when invoking the pact?
No, his name is Yaun. “Ten Jantris” means “student of Jantris”.
Yaun has popped up in the extra text during the last book
Look up “Tale of Yaun” on the KSB wiki page
The “ten” implies “student of”, so it’s a name. Yuan, student of Jantris, the Storm-Born.