Poor Zaid isn’t going to get chance to shine at all (not, I guess, that any of us expected him to show any abilities during this encounter). At least he’s not whining as much as Ron from “Kim Possible”, and even Ron got superpowers by the final episode.)
He hasn’t said ten words in how many years? He is a character with no character. It’s difficult to feel anything much about him except that he is an unused sex toy sitting in Allison’s dresser drawer.
Guess: she will not die, but next time we see her, she will be engaged to Zaid. If he really is a complete arse, as many here maintain, that counts as “very much not OK”.
Well, no relationship is perfect, and hopefully they will be able to bring the best of each other. And, if it does not work out, she might as well dump his ass and pull a Korrasami with Allison.
Yes, although they are part of a fluid polycule related to their adventure since, see, in my headcanon violence is inescapable in the same way that love is, and Allison discovers the best way to redeem people is to let them into her heart, ie the heart of God, and DAMMIT DON’T DRAG ME INTO THIS I SAID I WILL CONTINUE
Ah, Duty, that jewelled shackle, that throne in the prison cell.
I knew of one from a distant world who knew Duty intimately. A man of two worlds. Preem Curry, named Arthur for a mighty king of old, who bore the noble and illustrious title of Aquaman. A mighty hero.
One likes how as the Square One sees Allison’s wordless reply, his eye expresses realisation and surprise, then a dignified great respect, all the while tinged with slight sadness due to the cut-out tear shape.
Nah, we already have a perfectly non-descript problem solver right here. Why, if their name has any basis on the truth, it is far better than even a 4K screen.
Nice that the ‘prince’ is carted off to safety by Princess (tho they’re also following a real princess (“my father the king”) on an angel). Is Zoss fairy godmother?
I don’t really see a way to map these three onto those horny, horny bois.
That said, what if White Chain wasn’t sweating entirely with fear? What if, with her new organic eyes attached to an organic body, she saw the Jaggahog and thought simply…
“He big…”
69 Eternally Victimized By Immature Naming Choices
I think they can be mapped on to some extent, White Chain is a noble protector, Cio is wacky and has magic powers, and Allison wields tremendous divine power which she rarely uses to much effect.
I dunno why people are trying so hard to project onto zaids comment here. He’s just saying he finally met Allison again, after being alone for 2 years, but there is no better(short, panicky) way to say that. Hes just using the word “found” as slang really.
Well that takes a bit longer to say actually, and honestly if we are gonna be grammar natzis about this, the correct phrase would be “we just found eachother!”. Frankly the issue is that several people are reading -way- to far into this honestly insignificant turn of phrase by him, and just want to rag on his character.
In fact I’m pretty sure the creator is using “found” as a replacement for “met” because using met would require adding n “again” onto the end to make it more accurate. And I imagine he wanted zaids response to be brief and audiably sound well if suddenly shouted in protest.
Allison and co tried really hard, but ultimately failed to find Zaid. Their plans were foiled.
Their epic struggle placed them within meters of Zaid, and in the limelight, with his captors totally distracted…
But, while they went 99.99999% of this journey, it was Zaid who seized the moment to rush the stage and lock eyes with Allison. Frankly, in the moment, nobody was even looking for Zaid.
Beyond that, what does Zaid know about Allison and her journey, other than what Big Papa Salami mightāve told him?
That’s right guys, time to bail and leave this to the professionals! Thus our trio stands alone, without the risk of collateral damage which is currently hampering Solly’s action.
To look into the canteen and see that it is empty, to see the road ahead and know that you must inescapably die on it, to yeet the empty canteen into the face of God because BITE ME
You finding her is a hell of a stretch in definitions there Zaid. Like, I appreciate the frustration, he’s smart enough to realize Alison is his only ticked out of this mess, but come on dude, unlearn a little patriarchy and accept this is her story and you’re just the MacGuffin now.
And not even a relevant MacGuffin now.
Eh. I don’t see any reason to see him any better than pree Atlas said, since he is a creep-o and mostly dead weight to the story. He filling in for the traditional princess in distress role, and he cannot catch a break because he has had Mr. David fill his head with You Are Important ideas.
He is important ’cause Allison finds him important. For personal reasons.
The omniscient clause does not hold up in the end in most stories, at least in practice. Oh, sure, he will be called Kill Six Billion Demons, sure, J. Will he be a cool hero figure, fight for the multiverse, choose to lay down his life, et cetera? We will care far more for those things, as readers… and even then, Jadis may have been incorrectly interpreted or outright lying. Nobody can stop her from spinning a plausible lie, particularly if she knows where things are going and her prescience has already shown her the role she plays on the whole thing. What if lying is part of the scenario?
What if Allison decides to give Zaid a Demiurg-level power and keep the Key of Kings for herself?
What if she chooses not to keep it, or even get rid of all that power? Would Zaid becoming a figurehead count as him coming into his inherited role as King? What if, what if? Everybody can claim omniscience and amend predictions in hindsight if they have Jadis’ background.
42 Fragments the Universe Beyond All Reintegration
I think that the one good and true thing that Allison learns from Incubus is that ruling is unreasonably hard. The rising king will not become the ruling king.
Intriguingly IIRC, the original Demiurge, back in RL, was defined as the ultimate liar: the opponent to God, who represented truth.
Ilyria Hlaalu, Traveling Furniture Salesperson and Daedra Slayer
Seems a lot of folks confuse omniscience with being truthful. In fact, knowing everything probably makes lying much easier – you’d know what people will believe.
Lets say *I* were an omniscient demiurge who sincerely wished to die, knew a universal war was coming and that it was probably my best shot at oblivion; would I altruistically and accurately share all my info with my fellow god-emperors? or would I change little details like gender to subtly manipulate those around me into deeper conflict? Salami’s biggest weakness is his obsession with control, and in particular finding a worthy successor (see KoS 1-3). Jadis masterfully baited the prophecy with disinformation so SD would spend the whole run up to the war protecting a red herring while the TRUE king continued to rise. This is just my theory of course, but do any of you think SD would have adopted yung Allison had the prophesy used “her” instead of “him”?
“He is the successor” can mean a number of different things, though. It could mean that he will literally and unavoidably be the successor, or it could mean that he is the INTENDED successor. You can truthfully and accurately say that Prince Charles is the successor to Queen Elizabeth II, but that doesn’t mean he can’t possibly choke on a bagel.
He’s just using it as slang. And for fucks sakes Zaid was retroactively decreepifide by the author. Why some people seem obsessed with turning him into a villan is beyond me.
I wonder if people are that insufferable in their real lives.
Patriarchy? Really?
And as for being some villainous creep, has no one here had an awkward intimate encounter in their youth? No one was assaulted, raped, etc. Alison was nervous but wanted to try. She affirmed it when asked. Things were barely underway when Zoss showed up.
I’m not even sure Zaid had done it before; he seemed out of his depth just getting her top off.
There’s a difference between being a pervert or creep and an awkward horny teen.
Being a creep is not being a criminal. I will not say he has ever been the bad guy, but he is FAR from my favorite character. If he is shown caring for somebody other than himself or his ex, I’ll start to see him In a new light; until then, he is the very image of a lowkey Asshole Victim to me.
He’s probably my least favorite character, too, but that’s mainly because he’s a damsel with little characterization; we have… *dramatically worse people in play here*
Maybe that’s because we’re not used to see a man in the damsel-in-distress role? He’s really not much different than the traditional DID, except for his gender.
Once more, I would not say any of this if I was used to hearing “I just found you” from a princess in distress. I do get the point, though, there is a measure of gender role distortion in play for many of us.
I love it when I’ve been following a story far enough, and suddenly catch myself really rooting for the protagonist. My care for Allison kind of snuck up on me – I praised her as the embodiment of Yisun’s archetypal will, I rooted for her as Zoss’s heir – but with that look, I realized with a shiver that I’ve come to care for Allison for herself, for her own arc. HOW FAR SHE HAS COME! Thank you Abbadon, for this amazing Vedapunk tale. I’m so inspired.
Well, I guess “Black Indigator” (Š§ŃŃŠ½ŃŠ¹ ŠŠ°Š»Š°Š¼ŃŃ) by H. L. Oldie would qualify as such, but unless you know Russian you have quite small chance to familiarise yourself with this masterpiece, I’m afraid.
I really donāt understand the Zaid hate. Do people think he should say āwait, she just found me?ā Perhaps thereās just the implication that amidst all of this being kidnapped and traded around by angels and gods he wasnāt trying to find his once-partner, too?
Iām looking back at his only introductionā pre-defacto-abduction and imprisonment on an alien throne world with no support to speak of, no angel or demon to cleanly protect and exposit for himā and heās just awkward as hell, probably regurgitating nonsense heās heard. Theyāre both awkward as hell. Heās probably grown out of it just like Allison has. Weāve barely even seen his story! Weāve seen for ourselves that his presence made Allison happy, even if they wonāt be partners!
It’s not that visceral as hate, just fun bother. That sentence could have been uttered by anyone in his position, really, I get that. We all get that. He’s just so quintessentially self-absorbed that we, from our perspective, find it immature, but it is obvious this meant a big deal for him and still he doesn’t realise how him finding her, or viceversa, is a footnote in the face of things.
I mean, the sky is red, seven gods are doing battle, the only expat from your planet is now B U F F and basically a goddess and you go “but I just found you”? Kid, read the roooom.
42 Fragments the Universe Beyond All Reintegration
The great irony is that this, probably his last appearance, isn’t about him either, rather about Allison and how she’s moved on. Chasing after her love disinterest is no longer Allison’s Great Purpose.
The Zaid hate has been pretty prevalent in the comments since the beginning and reignited when he appeared again.
Many have been describing him basically as “that unredeemable creepo” for the three first comics, not being interested in reconsidering their position (who has time for that shit?).
Unfortunately for them, Abaddon has been describing him in a neutral or even positive light in recent comics.
So when he does something that could be interpreted has an offense to all that is holy, it’s only natural that all the accumulated tension be released in a wild hunt fashion.
That’s because he is a neutral-to-positive character in the grand scheme of things. Maybe if he had tried reasserting some kind of toxic masculinity in the middle of all this, I’d agree with some of the hate, but he’s always been concerned about her well being without overstepping boundaries.
I think a lot of people just want to associate his character with the great collective milieu of shitty, creepy guys who they have undoubtedly experienced in their lives and thus create a lot of hate for a character who doesn’t really feel like he deserves it(especially standing on the same soil as galactic war criminals and genocide enthusiasts).
99’s got a number of points. I’d argue it’s more that he has yet to show proper signs of progress, he does not really require redemption but character development into something clearly less toxic. It is perfectly feasible. He has already been seen shaken, and he has been a victim for the whole comic. It’s getting there.
But seriously, shaking that first impression will take more than just teary eyes when meeting the last normal person they saw before being carried away by a Death Metal guitarist’s LSD hallucination.
Yeah, it really feels like people are going out of their way to interpret what he said in the worst possible light. I’d even argue that him saying “she found me” would be a worse thing to say, so incoming excessive analysis.
When Zaid says “I just found her”, there’s an implied “I don’t want you to take me away because…” right before. The subject (Zaid in this case) is transferred to the implied sentence. [Zaid] doesn’t want Zaid to leave because [Zaid] just found Allison. If he instead said “She found me”, the same thing would happen, so he’d be implying that /Allison/ doesn’t want him to leave. [Allison] doesn’t want Zaid to leave because [Allison] just found Zaid. The latter would be way more egocentric/patriarchal /whatever because he’d be denying her agency and opinions and just making assumptions, but the way he says it is just expressing his own opinions rather than assuming hers.
I suppose there’s also the “we just found each other” which could still arguably be speaking for Allison a little bit, or changing up the word found to something else, but honestly I feel like what he said was the most natural and reasonable thing he could have.
From his perspective, sure. It feels like an organic part of his thinking, he is not anybody mouthpiece… and it still sounds self-absorbed, precisely because he sounds like he has been the active subject in the finding. It’s not like it’s the worst possible light, I believe it is in line with who he is that he’d be seeing things from his perspective instead of realising he is a footnote in all this! He is not the center of the story! He is being dragged by a demon in the retinue of the one who wields a shade of the Ultimate Power of the Universe, and he’s still the center of his own story.
That’s so typical for him it makes my eyes roll, not spit on his name. I still find him the least likable of all the protagonist squad, but mind you, that is just me. I cannot, and will not tell you what to feel about him… I just find him more awkwardly clueless than the creep he was shown to be at the beginning of the comic.
Once he can show character development, though, I’ll revise my opinion of him, I’m sure.
How do you know what’s typical for Zaid, considering that he’s had only a few lines in the last book and on the first pages of book 1, and NONE whatsoever in any other? We’ve barely seen or heard him, and the few things he HAS said and done were pretty normal. We barely know the poor guy, so let’s give him the benefit of the doubt, please?
You may, it is your prerogative, but I’m not ready to do that. Once he shows some development, I’ll happily jump on the “he doesn’t suck” bus, but til then, he is at most an asshole victim. Sure, it seems he’s headed there, but I’m not sold on that betterment yet. Yes, I am a sour cynicist, and you can quote me on that.
I don’t hate Zaid, he’s just really… young. As a prisoner/guest of Salami Dave, you could fairly say that he wasn’t presented with Allison’s, uh, “opportunities” for growth. But he doesn’t really seem to have tried much, and while that doesn’t make him BAD it’s not something you’d necessarily admire about him. And when you compare him directly to Allison, his lack of growth stands out REALLY starkly.
It’s simple really. The protagonist of this comic is a woman and the underlying themes are woman power. Therefore the target audience are most likely females who would want to have empowerment. So basically, Zaid, for being a man is to be hated. It is what it is. hehe
I’m happy that Zaid has the moxie to want to go back towards the deadly God-fight for the sake of staying with his friend. He has some pluck even if he doesn’t realise who’s saving who.
Perk up, lad. You still have a chance with Princess.
la
Poor Zaid isn’t going to get chance to shine at all (not, I guess, that any of us expected him to show any abilities during this encounter). At least he’s not whining as much as Ron from “Kim Possible”, and even Ron got superpowers by the final episode.)
They also serve who stand and run away.
That’s lovely. Well done.
I like Zaid. He’s enduring this bullshit rather well.
In video-game terms, all he’s received so far during an involuntary expedition to Hell is a clothing upgrade (now ruined).
He hasn’t said ten words in how many years? He is a character with no character. It’s difficult to feel anything much about him except that he is an unused sex toy sitting in Allison’s dresser drawer.
Your comment’s dripping with contempt for the opposite sex.
Of… which sex are we talking about? I can see people from both semester finding it contemptuous, tbh.
Particularly when, while while a poignant way, Ameboid was just speaking the friggin’ truth.
Sex*, not semester. Damn, that was embarrassing.
Lovely is Alisson’s “Sorry pal, we have to do this” face on panel 3.
I was reading it as “them’s the breaks, pal.”
The demiurge, the demon and the angel
The devil, the angel, and the god
And… the SQUARE ONE
Yeah, yeah, okay, BUT IS NYAVE GONNA BE OKAY
Guess: she will not die, but next time we see her, she will be engaged to Zaid. If he really is a complete arse, as many here maintain, that counts as “very much not OK”.
Well, no relationship is perfect, and hopefully they will be able to bring the best of each other. And, if it does not work out, she might as well dump his ass and pull a Korrasami with Allison.
DO NOT, JUDGE ME OR, MY FICS
But what if we judge you in such a way as to encourage you to continue?
DO NOT ‘CAUSE THEN I WILL CONTINUE
ARE YOU JESTING
In this hypothetical future, is Alison still also with Cio?
Yes, although they are part of a fluid polycule related to their adventure since, see, in my headcanon violence is inescapable in the same way that love is, and Allison discovers the best way to redeem people is to let them into her heart, ie the heart of God, and DAMMIT DON’T DRAG ME INTO THIS I SAID I WILL CONTINUE
HIP TO BE SQUARE
And the manifold names hidden within the word ROYALTY is revealed. Behold! The Sacred Vowel known as ‘DUTY’!
Heh. You said ādoody.ā
Heh, so did you.
But… use versus mention!
Ah, Duty, that jewelled shackle, that throne in the prison cell.
I knew of one from a distant world who knew Duty intimately. A man of two worlds. Preem Curry, named Arthur for a mighty king of old, who bore the noble and illustrious title of Aquaman. A mighty hero.
You joke, but Aquaman is legitimately pretty mighty.
Eh… Namor was always better IMO.
Who’s joking, Aquaman’s my favourite superhero.
The angel sure does display a lot of emotion from a single, unblinking eye.
This is all very noble and all, but White Chain is the best fighter here and she couldn’t make Solomon bleed.
What are you gonna do, really?
Poke Jaggās good eye with a spear? However many cubitsāif anyāconstitute a safe distance.
And really, who knows what White Chain is capable of in her new body? Probably a lot less than she could do in her angel armor, don’t you think?
One should note…the Red God has NOT yet made Solomon bleed.
Bleed, no. Dissolve, yes.
Good god… you’re right.
They’re going to look into their canteen, see that they will die of thirst, and keep marching anyway. What magnificent fools!
Its actually prettyamazing. Not only is he expressive, but courteous to women as well. And he can skip on the water! Truly, a fine catch.
I came here to say just that. It having been said and there not being a like button, I wrote this wordy alternative.
T H M P
One likes how as the Square One sees Allison’s wordless reply, his eye expresses realisation and surprise, then a dignified great respect, all the while tinged with slight sadness due to the cut-out tear shape.
Who’s really finding who, here?
Basically my thought. Creep-boy is so self-centered it is no wonder he doesn’t collapse on himself like an egotistical black hole.
Quick to dump on him eh? If you project any harder we will need a screen.
Nah, we already have a perfectly non-descript problem solver right here. Why, if their name has any basis on the truth, it is far better than even a 4K screen.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. š
You don’t deserve your freedom, sir/miss or whatever you are.
Tough luck. Not up to you, my freedom. š
That’s unfair. Let us not pretend too fervently we do not feel that we are protagonists of our own story, eh?
This is what YISUN said to Themselves right before the divine suicide.
IA IA! Lo and recognize, the Coming King Rises!
I like how the last panel is a reverse Cinderella almost.
Alison’s missing a shoe, while Zaid (the “prince”) is carted off to safety.
It’s worth asking:
“Who made all the cinders?”
Nice that the ‘prince’ is carted off to safety by Princess (tho they’re also following a real princess (“my father the king”) on an angel). Is Zoss fairy godmother?
Look forward to a Ciallicess–this I prophesy.
Zaid! No!
And he shall be flanked by a white flame and a black flame!
Hail to the Rising King!
Oh of course! Zade! with Princess on one side and Vigilant on the other. We were following the wrong protagonist this whole time!
The square one dances over a sea of red. He is an inverse kool-aid man.
Wait! A geometrical multy-limbed angel crossing red waters- OH SHIT ARE WE ON NEON GENESiS EVANGELION GROUNDS NOW 0__0
“Congratulations!”
0_0
Oh No!
“Get in the fucking royalty, Shinji”
Just as planned.
!HAEY HO
yesssss tres horny girls ride again
I don’t really see a way to map these three onto those horny, horny bois.
That said, what if White Chain wasn’t sweating entirely with fear? What if, with her new organic eyes attached to an organic body, she saw the Jaggahog and thought simply…
“He big…”
I think they can be mapped on to some extent, White Chain is a noble protector, Cio is wacky and has magic powers, and Allison wields tremendous divine power which she rarely uses to much effect.
The only horns I see are on Cio’s and Princess’s heads.
I hate it when you’re right.
Vigilante gaze retreats… “Well he did basically use up all his stored energy in the previous fight” yeah now he’s walking on water…
Like a watter skipping pebble that threw itself.
Angels tread in silence when they choose to, no matter the heft of their armor. Why not this?
no wait that’s blood
źØh? źØh, *yź©u* fź©und *her*, nź©w did you, zaid? Are yź©u the prź©tagź©nist? is the cź©mic named after yź©u? I thź©ught nź©t.
Be Carried Away By Six Billion Demons.
(A fanfic. Coming to you, never.)
I have to say that this is unexpected, but I look forward to it.
If you believe what Jadis says, he’s supposed to be.
Bah. She sees but through a glass darkly. Her visions are not to be trusted.
I dunno why people are trying so hard to project onto zaids comment here. He’s just saying he finally met Allison again, after being alone for 2 years, but there is no better(short, panicky) way to say that. Hes just using the word “found” as slang really.
He could have said “she just found me”. Because that’s what actually happened.
Well that takes a bit longer to say actually, and honestly if we are gonna be grammar natzis about this, the correct phrase would be “we just found eachother!”. Frankly the issue is that several people are reading -way- to far into this honestly insignificant turn of phrase by him, and just want to rag on his character.
In fact I’m pretty sure the creator is using “found” as a replacement for “met” because using met would require adding n “again” onto the end to make it more accurate. And I imagine he wanted zaids response to be brief and audiably sound well if suddenly shouted in protest.
Allison and co tried really hard, but ultimately failed to find Zaid. Their plans were foiled.
Their epic struggle placed them within meters of Zaid, and in the limelight, with his captors totally distracted…
But, while they went 99.99999% of this journey, it was Zaid who seized the moment to rush the stage and lock eyes with Allison. Frankly, in the moment, nobody was even looking for Zaid.
Beyond that, what does Zaid know about Allison and her journey, other than what Big Papa Salami mightāve told him?
Frankly, yes, it’s nź©t a big deal. I’m nź© zaid hater (he has prź©gressed frź©m slightly creepy tź© seemingly fairly mature), it’s just funny tź© hear him be a bit egź©centric, in the way anybź©dy anyź©ne cź©uld be, especially under such stressful and rushed circumstances.
This.
Also, I like your ź©, they are cute. ā¤
the soldier who fights and runs away lives to fight another day.
Whilst he who is battle slain can never rise to fight again.
Donno Zaid, why u no like dat thicc demon girl?
That’s right guys, time to bail and leave this to the professionals! Thus our trio stands alone, without the risk of collateral damage which is currently hampering Solly’s action.
And as for Zaid… Zaid who?
“leave this to the professionals” – Honestly they’ve been doing that for the last 30 pages and they haven’t made a dent in Jagganoth.
What this battle needs is an enthusiastic amateur too stupid to realise they can’t win. Enter Al-Yisun, Queen of Fools and Lost Causes!
I only see one professional trying to beat Jagg.
Then we have the old fashion lady, the demented llizard, the wormclown, crystal lady and the blade-licking amateur.
… where is the blade-licking amateur?
Oh don’t worry, you can trust Incubus…
… to be doing something that everybody else is going to regret.
“You can trust Incubus.”
Suspicious out of context sentence is suspicious. š¤
Just emerging when two tons of angel treads on his head. Might slow him down a little.
To look into the canteen and see that it is empty, to see the road ahead and know that you must inescapably die on it, to yeet the empty canteen into the face of God because BITE ME
Strong head, red hair
Spinning top, laid bare.
Round peg, small or square.
You finding her is a hell of a stretch in definitions there Zaid. Like, I appreciate the frustration, he’s smart enough to realize Alison is his only ticked out of this mess, but come on dude, unlearn a little patriarchy and accept this is her story and you’re just the MacGuffin now.
And not even a relevant MacGuffin now.
I think you’re really trying to interpret Zaid in the least flattering way possible here, jeez.
Eh. I don’t see any reason to see him any better than pree Atlas said, since he is a creep-o and mostly dead weight to the story. He filling in for the traditional princess in distress role, and he cannot catch a break because he has had Mr. David fill his head with You Are Important ideas.
He is important ’cause Allison finds him important. For personal reasons.
Don’t you forget that Jadis is omniscient and never mistaken. And she stated quite plainly: “He… is… the… successor”.
Another matter – she never specified whose exactly.
For all this years, I personaly maintain that Allison’s.
He will inherit her power, though probably not at all soon.
The omniscient clause does not hold up in the end in most stories, at least in practice. Oh, sure, he will be called Kill Six Billion Demons, sure, J. Will he be a cool hero figure, fight for the multiverse, choose to lay down his life, et cetera? We will care far more for those things, as readers… and even then, Jadis may have been incorrectly interpreted or outright lying. Nobody can stop her from spinning a plausible lie, particularly if she knows where things are going and her prescience has already shown her the role she plays on the whole thing. What if lying is part of the scenario?
What if Allison decides to give Zaid a Demiurg-level power and keep the Key of Kings for herself?
What if she chooses not to keep it, or even get rid of all that power? Would Zaid becoming a figurehead count as him coming into his inherited role as King? What if, what if? Everybody can claim omniscience and amend predictions in hindsight if they have Jadis’ background.
I think that the one good and true thing that Allison learns from Incubus is that ruling is unreasonably hard. The rising king will not become the ruling king.
Intriguingly IIRC, the original Demiurge, back in RL, was defined as the ultimate liar: the opponent to God, who represented truth.
Huh.
Given that in KSBD, God is a *consummate* liar, would that make a true Demiurge in this setting an ultimate truth speaker?
It’s one of the things that crossed my mind.
Per word of God, Jadis is indeed perfectly omniscient. That is a given, not subject to debate.
On the other hand, she is NOT constrained to truth. As far as we know, she is permitted to lie, either directly of by omission.
And her communication seems quite cryptic, and the possibility of an error of interpretation (in good faith or not) is totally on the table
Also, she’s had the biggest stroke the Wheel has ever seen (by seeing the Wheel).
Seems a lot of folks confuse omniscience with being truthful. In fact, knowing everything probably makes lying much easier – you’d know what people will believe.
Lets say *I* were an omniscient demiurge who sincerely wished to die, knew a universal war was coming and that it was probably my best shot at oblivion; would I altruistically and accurately share all my info with my fellow god-emperors? or would I change little details like gender to subtly manipulate those around me into deeper conflict? Salami’s biggest weakness is his obsession with control, and in particular finding a worthy successor (see KoS 1-3). Jadis masterfully baited the prophecy with disinformation so SD would spend the whole run up to the war protecting a red herring while the TRUE king continued to rise. This is just my theory of course, but do any of you think SD would have adopted yung Allison had the prophesy used “her” instead of “him”?
wow way to steal my thunder with a better comment than mine but yeah you’re right also wow and boo and wow
“He is the successor” can mean a number of different things, though. It could mean that he will literally and unavoidably be the successor, or it could mean that he is the INTENDED successor. You can truthfully and accurately say that Prince Charles is the successor to Queen Elizabeth II, but that doesn’t mean he can’t possibly choke on a bagel.
He’s just using it as slang. And for fucks sakes Zaid was retroactively decreepifide by the author. Why some people seem obsessed with turning him into a villan is beyond me.
Agreed.
I wonder if people are that insufferable in their real lives.
Patriarchy? Really?
And as for being some villainous creep, has no one here had an awkward intimate encounter in their youth? No one was assaulted, raped, etc. Alison was nervous but wanted to try. She affirmed it when asked. Things were barely underway when Zoss showed up.
I’m not even sure Zaid had done it before; he seemed out of his depth just getting her top off.
There’s a difference between being a pervert or creep and an awkward horny teen.
Being a creep is not being a criminal. I will not say he has ever been the bad guy, but he is FAR from my favorite character. If he is shown caring for somebody other than himself or his ex, I’ll start to see him In a new light; until then, he is the very image of a lowkey Asshole Victim to me.
He’s probably my least favorite character, too, but that’s mainly because he’s a damsel with little characterization; we have… *dramatically worse people in play here*
Fair enough. Then again, I like them better in their role as VILLAINS than I like Zaid in his current role.
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Maybe that’s because we’re not used to see a man in the damsel-in-distress role? He’s really not much different than the traditional DID, except for his gender.
Once more, I would not say any of this if I was used to hearing “I just found you” from a princess in distress. I do get the point, though, there is a measure of gender role distortion in play for many of us.
At the beginning of the last book we saw him worry about Alison. So yeah, it’s time you see him in a new light I’m thinking.
Why are you so invested in how I see him? I will change my mind when I have reason to change my mind, darnit.
I love it when I’ve been following a story far enough, and suddenly catch myself really rooting for the protagonist. My care for Allison kind of snuck up on me – I praised her as the embodiment of Yisun’s archetypal will, I rooted for her as Zoss’s heir – but with that look, I realized with a shiver that I’ve come to care for Allison for herself, for her own arc. HOW FAR SHE HAS COME! Thank you Abbadon, for this amazing Vedapunk tale. I’m so inspired.
Is Vedapunk a thing? Is there any other Vedapunk I can browse? Can I invite you to a drink? On me.
Well, I guess “Black Indigator” (Š§ŃŃŠ½ŃŠ¹ ŠŠ°Š»Š°Š¼ŃŃ) by H. L. Oldie would qualify as such, but unless you know Russian you have quite small chance to familiarise yourself with this masterpiece, I’m afraid.
I NEED A TRANSLATOR, COMRADES
Also Zaid was there, but he didn’t do anything in the entire story really.
Hey! That’s not fair. He fussed, not once but SEVERAL times.
I really donāt understand the Zaid hate. Do people think he should say āwait, she just found me?ā Perhaps thereās just the implication that amidst all of this being kidnapped and traded around by angels and gods he wasnāt trying to find his once-partner, too?
Iām looking back at his only introductionā pre-defacto-abduction and imprisonment on an alien throne world with no support to speak of, no angel or demon to cleanly protect and exposit for himā and heās just awkward as hell, probably regurgitating nonsense heās heard. Theyāre both awkward as hell. Heās probably grown out of it just like Allison has. Weāve barely even seen his story! Weāve seen for ourselves that his presence made Allison happy, even if they wonāt be partners!
I just donāt get it.
It’s not that visceral as hate, just fun bother. That sentence could have been uttered by anyone in his position, really, I get that. We all get that. He’s just so quintessentially self-absorbed that we, from our perspective, find it immature, but it is obvious this meant a big deal for him and still he doesn’t realise how him finding her, or viceversa, is a footnote in the face of things.
I mean, the sky is red, seven gods are doing battle, the only expat from your planet is now B U F F and basically a goddess and you go “but I just found you”? Kid, read the roooom.
The great irony is that this, probably his last appearance, isn’t about him either, rather about Allison and how she’s moved on. Chasing after her love disinterest is no longer Allison’s Great Purpose.
Sounds like something Zaid would write…
The Zaid hate has been pretty prevalent in the comments since the beginning and reignited when he appeared again.
Many have been describing him basically as “that unredeemable creepo” for the three first comics, not being interested in reconsidering their position (who has time for that shit?).
Unfortunately for them, Abaddon has been describing him in a neutral or even positive light in recent comics.
So when he does something that could be interpreted has an offense to all that is holy, it’s only natural that all the accumulated tension be released in a wild hunt fashion.
That’s because he is a neutral-to-positive character in the grand scheme of things. Maybe if he had tried reasserting some kind of toxic masculinity in the middle of all this, I’d agree with some of the hate, but he’s always been concerned about her well being without overstepping boundaries.
I think a lot of people just want to associate his character with the great collective milieu of shitty, creepy guys who they have undoubtedly experienced in their lives and thus create a lot of hate for a character who doesn’t really feel like he deserves it(especially standing on the same soil as galactic war criminals and genocide enthusiasts).
99’s got a number of points. I’d argue it’s more that he has yet to show proper signs of progress, he does not really require redemption but character development into something clearly less toxic. It is perfectly feasible. He has already been seen shaken, and he has been a victim for the whole comic. It’s getting there.
But seriously, shaking that first impression will take more than just teary eyes when meeting the last normal person they saw before being carried away by a Death Metal guitarist’s LSD hallucination.
Unfortunately Zaid will die on Epic Jagganoth Battle page #3471.
(The anime battle has put his characterization in a difficult spot, but I kid).
I hope he lives to inherit some power and do good with it, thus finally providing a positive role for readers to be invested in.
Yeah, it really feels like people are going out of their way to interpret what he said in the worst possible light. I’d even argue that him saying “she found me” would be a worse thing to say, so incoming excessive analysis.
When Zaid says “I just found her”, there’s an implied “I don’t want you to take me away because…” right before. The subject (Zaid in this case) is transferred to the implied sentence. [Zaid] doesn’t want Zaid to leave because [Zaid] just found Allison. If he instead said “She found me”, the same thing would happen, so he’d be implying that /Allison/ doesn’t want him to leave. [Allison] doesn’t want Zaid to leave because [Allison] just found Zaid. The latter would be way more egocentric/patriarchal /whatever because he’d be denying her agency and opinions and just making assumptions, but the way he says it is just expressing his own opinions rather than assuming hers.
I suppose there’s also the “we just found each other” which could still arguably be speaking for Allison a little bit, or changing up the word found to something else, but honestly I feel like what he said was the most natural and reasonable thing he could have.
Anyway, thanks for coming to my TED talk.
From his perspective, sure. It feels like an organic part of his thinking, he is not anybody mouthpiece… and it still sounds self-absorbed, precisely because he sounds like he has been the active subject in the finding. It’s not like it’s the worst possible light, I believe it is in line with who he is that he’d be seeing things from his perspective instead of realising he is a footnote in all this! He is not the center of the story! He is being dragged by a demon in the retinue of the one who wields a shade of the Ultimate Power of the Universe, and he’s still the center of his own story.
That’s so typical for him it makes my eyes roll, not spit on his name. I still find him the least likable of all the protagonist squad, but mind you, that is just me. I cannot, and will not tell you what to feel about him… I just find him more awkwardly clueless than the creep he was shown to be at the beginning of the comic.
Once he can show character development, though, I’ll revise my opinion of him, I’m sure.
How do you know what’s typical for Zaid, considering that he’s had only a few lines in the last book and on the first pages of book 1, and NONE whatsoever in any other? We’ve barely seen or heard him, and the few things he HAS said and done were pretty normal. We barely know the poor guy, so let’s give him the benefit of the doubt, please?
You may, it is your prerogative, but I’m not ready to do that. Once he shows some development, I’ll happily jump on the “he doesn’t suck” bus, but til then, he is at most an asshole victim. Sure, it seems he’s headed there, but I’m not sold on that betterment yet. Yes, I am a sour cynicist, and you can quote me on that.
I don’t hate Zaid, he’s just really… young. As a prisoner/guest of Salami Dave, you could fairly say that he wasn’t presented with Allison’s, uh, “opportunities” for growth. But he doesn’t really seem to have tried much, and while that doesn’t make him BAD it’s not something you’d necessarily admire about him. And when you compare him directly to Allison, his lack of growth stands out REALLY starkly.
It’s simple really. The protagonist of this comic is a woman and the underlying themes are woman power. Therefore the target audience are most likely females who would want to have empowerment. So basically, Zaid, for being a man is to be hated. It is what it is. hehe
hehe you’re wrong hehe ask me how I know hehe
I’m happy that Zaid has the moxie to want to go back towards the deadly God-fight for the sake of staying with his friend. He has some pluck even if he doesn’t realise who’s saving who.
Perk up, lad. You still have a chance with Princess.
I love 10 Vigilant Gaze Purges the Horizon so, so much.