King of Swords 10-172
Yem Yeddo was astonished, and a great terror overwhelmed him. He was a quick and cowardly man, and fled. The people rejoiced and the granaries were broken open. The bodies of the tyrannical lord’s men were burned without rites and stomped upon. Flour was dragged forth by the sackful, the well Intra dug was quickly filled with fresh water and reinforced with stone, and soon many loaves of bread were emerging, steaming, from his oven. A goat was slaughtered and a great feast was had.
“Thankyou for the hospitality,” said Intra, when the night had grown long. “I will not impose upon you any longer.”
The populace were desperate for him to stay. “Lord Intra,” said they, “Yem Yeddo may yet return, with more men!”
“That is true,” said Intra, “And that I cannot help with you. But remember, men like him have forgotten their mothers. Their feet do not touch the earth, and they grasp at feeble things. They are like a mangy dog fighting over a fetid corpse. They have forgotten that with their brothers, working together, they could bring down a magnificent ox.”
He reached down and picked a goodly sized rock from the floor of the valley.
“This valley is broad and beautiful. It may have one Yem Yeddo, but it contains many more stones.”
– The Song of Maybe
the only just rule is one chosen by the people for the betterment of the people. an tús!
The Mandate of Heaven.
The people’s will.
For all the bad press and misunderstanding that Machiavelli has gotten, he had a lot more in common with Lao Zi then most these days would give him credit for.
The Tyrant, The Champion, The Beast, The People, The Empire, The Throne, The Wheel, every soul too gaze upon an open gate now knows:
Anyone can change. And, even Solomon “The Untouchable” bleeds.
The Tyrant, The Champion, The Beast, The People, The Empire, The Throne, The Wheel, every soul to gaze upon an open gate believes in the lies of society (Gog-Agog).
Gog-Agog is the beast.
“There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things.”
Niccolo Machiavelli, (or it might have been The Purple Sage but I think it was Machiavelli.)
Thou art God, and I am God, and together we are God, and all that groks is God.
The only right to govern derives from a mandate of those governed; a mandate given from a position of informed consent and free choice. Monty Python wasn’t just making funny noises, you know.
This must be the boldest request in the history of Creation, bringing low the Celestial Emperor far more effectively than any sharpened blade or clenched fist. The Diamond will refuse to be cut, and he will shatter. Lots more blood to be spilled this day, yes.
The guy will take the offer on a heart beat and leave faster than my dad did when he said he was gonna buy cigarettes.
I came back eventually, and you said you were gonna let that go!
An unsurprising request, to be certain. Let us see how honorable the Emperor really is, shall we?
Pride and honor are often at odds with one another. I’m interested as well.
same. i have so much hope in my heart that he’ll actually do the right thing???
but also i’m scared that bruise might be an ego metaphor 😰
No.
Get the hell outta here, Bob.
and what would you prefer, lmao
anyways, i thought you were banned? guess that changed.
Anyone can say they’re Bob.
Aye lets hope he declines. Change for the sake of change is pretty silly when you think about it. Especially when dealing with the amount people in his part of the universe – alot of lives disrupted to satisfy WCs ego – good thing she’s no angel any more 😛
It’s not really change for the sake of change though? He’s a dictator and a tyrant, and like White Chain says, whenever he dies he’s created a kingdom that is not made to exist or grow without him. Other than the fact that he has a ~pretty city~ we have no reason to believe Solomon David is any less cruel or exploitative than the other demiurges, do we? I mean, we know he holds a semi-annual tournament that’s all about grinding people to dust, he just exploded a bunch of people a few pages ago.
Except all of his people absolutely adore him. And he crushed people who were greedy beyond their means. He gave them a choice, and they chose poorly.
I don’t understand all the hate Solomon gets.
Adore him? What makes you think that? They’re desperate to prove their worth to him, but they were glad to see someone stand up to him, glad to see him finally take a hit.
“Those people took an opportunity he presented them knowing that they would be helpless and completely unprepared. How could we blame him for murdering hundreds of people who were just following the rules he set?”
I think actually that being a dictator in the midst of conquering a seventh of the universe who slaughters hundreds of people to protect his ego is bad.
he’s not watching over every one of his worlds though is he? Even if we assume the “best” about his ruling style- say that every one of his worlds is essentially run like this one, AND that his laws are perfectly “just” insofar as they can be (both big assumptions)- it’s still a state made up of conquered lands, with an enforced culture, or lack thereof, and an apparent hierarchy, such that even minor leaders within his own capital city can easily end up whipping their workers as if they were slaves unless he’s literally there in person to stop them. I can’t imagine his tens of thousands other worlds would be faring much better under this power structure. Maybe Solomon does have some high minded ideals about personal rights for his citizens, but it’s clear he considers the state apparatus they live under to be even more important to his success as a ruler, and his empire’s success as an empire. He believes that above all, the most important thing for his country’s well-being is the maintenance of some kind of strict order, and he achieves that by promoting his own worship, and emulation. But the exact character of that emulation matters less than the fact itself- as long as each citizen *thinks* they’re acting in his image, then the empire is unified in a way no other section of the universe is, and he can more or less rest easy in the knowledge that he’s done better than anyone else has at this job. He would argue that, despite any obvious flaws, this is obviously the best *realistically* possible scenario for the largest number of his people. White Chain just knows the truth that none of those people were made in his image at all, and as long as they all labor under the idea that they were, nothing will ever get better, and none of them will ever rly be free, yknow? thats how i read it anyway
I think there’s a reason these pages are above stories of Intra. Both were unquestionably powerful, both killed- Just, so many people. But, one did it to rule, and the other to build.
Intra is not an allegory for Solomon David, Yem Yeddo is.
Intra might be powerful, but he rules nothing but himself. The parable of Intra and the stones is one that teaches us that the might of the people is always grander than the power of a tyrant, and should there be more tyrants or should they try to return, this fact of life doesn’t change. Solomon’s empire can do better without him, for the greatest might lies in people coming together to help one another, not in the hands of the kings. While Intra has defeated Yeddo on his own, following his example the people can ensure any future would-be tyrant or Yeddo trying to return will be dealt with by the many stones of the earth.
This has to be the single most impressive case of missing the point of a story in the history of humankind. Please, read the recentmost parable of Intra once again. Solomon David is Yem Yeddo, and so is every other demiurge. And the multiverse is full of stones. There can be no freedom and no happiness while the few exploit the many for the sake of building shiny capitols on their favored hills, decorated with nought but plundered wealth.
As stubborn and prideful, and as fragile and doomed, as Solomon David himself.
Zaid has a little brown flame? And Nyaeve has one too???
Also ugh i can never spell Nyave’s name right 🙁
She actually manifested it before when they were discussing in their godhead home about their decisions to go to the tournament to rescue Zaid
I remember that, but I was terrified that it was actually an indication that she was A-Gog’d.
Zaid’s is purple.
I guess it makes sense. We do not know exactly what happened to Zahid, but we do know he had one hell of a trip, and I imagine that forges your soul.
Note that Solomon David’s flame has gone out.
I disagree that it’s “gone out” (and all that implies) so much as “it’s been tempered” (and all that implies).
Solemn Dave has always been my fav of the demiurges, and here I think I see him growing moreso. The next few pages will tell.
every single one of these flames makes sense to me except nyave’s. zaid has a dim little black (purple) flame, like a human should. cio and princess have black flames. white chain and vigilant gaze have white flames. alison has cool uncle gilgamesh he-man’s key to the universe.
but nyave’s flame is… green?
… 😰
Tiddies out so you know she’s serious.
Interesting that she’s clad the same as Solidus Denarius: bared chest, robed from the waist to the ankles. Is it because they are equals here?
Come to think of it, Vigilant Gaze also has the titty-out-long-white-skirt look going right now. It’s like it means something…
I mean, the sun’s out, and big lumps of fat can get pretty warm.
A bare chest and covered legs is apparently common garb among men here. White Chain has labored under a male or quasi-masculine identity for eons. Why start covering her chest now that she’s “out”, I guess?
The whole match between White Chain and Solomon felt like Solomon was mirroring her styles and stances. Solomon was beating her at her own game, at her BEST, as a way of crushing her, letting her know her best wasn’t good enough. It was an attempt to utterly crush her spirit, as well as crush any onlookers.
And now White Chain is mirroring Solomon. It’s his tactic, but subverted in the name of the underdog. It’s brilliant visual storytelling.
And the curtain’s were blue, too
i was gonna contest this cos she’s had her tits out for like 98% of the comic but thats about how much shes been serious too so
She didn’t have tits for most of the comic.
“Encased within a shell of stone” is about as not-out as you can get…
It’s an artistic allusion, I think. “Liberty Leading the People” is a painting by Eugène Delacroix commemorating the July Revolution of 1830, which toppled King Charles X of France, featuring a bare-breasted woman leading an assault. It’s used on YouTube to illustrate “Storm the Bastille” by The Angels.
bare-chested *is* white chain’s classical look… 😌
Starring Intra in the Conquest of Bread
This comic has some great LGBT representation, and now Intra is giving us that LGTB representation.
That seems to be a very good joke that I’ve missed. Do you mind explaining it to me? Again, sorry to bother.
“Let’s Get That Bread”
Upon further reflection and research it seems that “let’s get this/that bread” is actually primarily a meme about working hard to earn an income and not, as I had been exposed to it, a reference to “The Conquest of Bread” by Peter Kropotkin, which is how it is generally used in anarcho-communist circles.
Well, he’s not stupid. Like White Chain says, he knows this. The question is, can a practically-immortal control-freak sole-survivor-and-literal-sire-of-an-entire-nation give up that control, that thing that has driven him over these many long centuries?
I recall that the start of this arc begins with a gathering of “advisors” in a chamber, and the topic of discussion (apparently an old, well-worn and very raw one) is the topic of the emperor’s succession, and that he has not named a successor. The conversation goes poorly, and remains unresolved.
Well. Maybe it’s time he resolved it.
Solomon David witnessed the impossible; an angel learning and changing. One might perhaps think “Can I, a practically-immortal control-freak sole-survivor-and-literal-sire-of-an-entire-nation, also learn and change?”
Or perhaps not…
Ohhhhhhhh I just realized something. If he gives up the throne then White Chain will become empress, as she became heir to the throne when she “won”
Thelo, you need to more carefully read what WC is saying. She is saying specifically that he give up ruling so his people can grow and rule themselves. For her to take the throne in his place is exactly the opposite of that.
Quick question,
Since Rayuba was entirely destroyed and Solomon David rebuilt it, *DID* he sire the entire “new native” people of this planet? Or did he just bring people from around the multiverse or survivors of the Rayuban diaspora, and his bloodline is relegated to his small council?
The People’s Law is the only just law. The People’s Rule is the only just rule. But how to contest with Empire? There can be no People’s Empire, it is neither just nor lawful. At the heart of the matter is Power, in all its facets. How does Power, as wielded thus far by one man, behave in the hands of the People?
I hope for peace.
“Empire” is just a term used to describe a large nation made up of multiple lands and territories. Its not bound by a particular type of government.
Apart from the inherent constraints of forging a large nation out of multiple lands and territories who may not be equally enthusiastic about the prospect.
They are gonna be impaled by a red army and Gog-Agog will be there to offer “salvation” to those willing to eat her worms.
Remember that she planned all of this.
I really appreciate the realism done with Scooby Doo on the last panel. It looks really nice. Also democracy is cool.
I hope Dave accepts this. This is his one chance to be based.
Yo even Zaid and Nyave are manifesting a soul flame!
One does not need a key of kings to be royalty.
And Cio, and Princess!
The problem with handing control over to the people in a multiverse where Gog Agog exists is that you need to implement some sort of anti-worm safeguard or eventually your society will be controlled by Gogs Agog. I think that the intricacies of the safeguards for democratic societies in this universe are beyond the scope of this comic, but it is something to think about.
holy fuck I just realized Gog-Agog’s name doesn’t just come from Mag and Magog, it comes from “Demagogue”.
*Gog and Magog
aye and in world where you cannot clench forever and hundress of thousands of other universes are led by immortals who wish to conquer you. Slaves do not learn to be the masters of their fates on the first day of freedom. Some learned years before and for most it requires years. Decolonization is a process not an instant.
So they are gonna be dismembered by everyone else until they learn how master their new powers, assuming of course your nice neighbor Gog-Agog, who is right there btw, is just gonna let them.
Well anyway in either case, is no longer Solomon’s problem, he is just keeping his word.
No one is saying Solomon can’t help them in the process.
Also, you need a way to prevent Gog-Agog from taking over even with an absolute monarchy. Even if the immortal ruler is untouchable, that doesn’t mean their subjects are and a kingdom is made of its subjects, not its rulers.
so Solomon as a protector, but not ruler? the risk of sentient worm infiltration is notably less when at any time the god emperor might show up and start blasting. or is it like the blood hot needle test in The Thing, but testing for gog agog? That would be pleasing to see
THE MASS REMEMBERS. THE MASS IS IMMORTAL. THE MASS ALWAYS WINS.
I appreciate the Problem Sleuth reference in the alt text.
Apologies if this posts twice. It did not seem to take on my first attempt.
I second this sentiment.
When one man would carry the whole world on his shoulders, when he stumbles the entire world shall shake and fall, broken.
The fate of the world is a burden born best by the multitude, the collective.
Tiddies our for justice!
Her eyes are stone grey. The last vestige of her past body.
Hell yeah, strength beyond strength.
That about covers it. Glad there’s more to come …
White Chain has made an executive decision of this being a Tits Out occasion
A great many stones indeed ::3
I love the fact that the scope and breadth of the soul flame shows the relative power levels of the characters. I think that the colours are also telling of the morality of the characters as well… which brings forth some fascinating ruminations on the associations of colours, divinity… also I hear in her ask the echos of the Sumerian, Eritrean, Indus, and Mayan elders… and it makes me so deeply sad.
Could you dive deeper into the elders thing? I have heard no such thing.
Wow, that’s gotta be the best speech of the entire series so far. The team certainly seems to think so; EVERYONE’S soul flames are manifesting. I guess you could say they’re…
Fired up.
PLEASE SAY YES PLEASE SAY YES PLEASE SAY YES
PLEASE SAY YES PLEASE SAY YES PLEASE SAY YES
PLEASE SAY YES PLEASE SAY YES PLEASE SAY YES
PLEASE SAY YES PLEASE SAY YES PLEASE SAY YES
PLEASE SAY YES PLEASE SAY YES PLEASE SAY YES
Oh! Pardon. This was supposed to be a comment, not a reply.
But please say yes. I’m sure someone is asking.
ok, us guess so. As tha’s askin nicelike.
I look from afar at the situation next to a way back to Throne, but a cleverly placed, well-refracted ice golem animated by the White and Red Arts does help as far as seeing what’s going on without being seen in turn. (I *believe* that that shouldn’t be against the Empire’s laws?)
I hope that at least this tournament’s drink contract will be honored in the new regime should he accept, and that the social unrest should he not not be sufficient to prevent its fulfillment.
Be warned, though: the worm WILL react should he give up power. I would advise everyone to have an emergency exit ready if possible.
Nonsense! as if your good neighbor Gog-Agog would go and take advantage of a bunch of amateurs coming into possession of absolute power which they don’t know how to use, and that will only equal hers if they all work in unison.
She is clearly just leave them alone, maybe give them a hand while they stabilize, make sure all the other factions wont make any moves on them, you know, since she is so nice.
My Dear 2 Bob Utterly Fails At Reading Comprehension Despite Picking A New Name And Topic To Bellow About,
Gog was there before Solomon got hit. Gog had at minimum three bodies present, and half of the crowd was Gog. Even if you get your wet dream and Salami Deposed keeps his throne and goes on a multi-panel screed about why, and breaking character and message of the story to do so, the gang acquiesces, Gog will still be there, doing the same shit you’re yammering about. Silent Daddy doesn’t have more than the current agreement between the Seven protecting his precious Celestial Empire from whatever propaganda Gog wants to use, and he and his squabbling sons know it. And that’s assuming the Agreement doesn’t just go to one of 77 adjacent hells.
Whether it gets yet larger I don’t know, but it’s a new posse. It needs a name.
“They will say you’re weak!”
“No, they will see we’re strong.”
“Your position is so unique!”
“So I’ll use it to move them along.”
“Why do you have to say goodbye?”
“If I say goodbye, the nation learns to move on, it outlives me when I’m gone…”
-Alexander Hamilton and George Washington, “One Last Time,” Hamilton Musical
This whole exchange between White Chain and Solomon … oof we’re reaching levels of cringe I didn’t think possible.
Cringe indeed. He certainly doomed his people to a life of prosperity and civility. But yeah time to tear it all down
Is ok if it all fails you can always join Gog-Agog, she is right there after all.
Hm? It’s pretty accurate, empires around one great ruler tend to fall apart when that ruler dies. Off the head I can think of the Mongols, Alexander the Great’s conquests, and at least two Chinese dynasties that all collapsed when their big man in charge kicked the bucket.
First, this is hardly a problem in a universe where that ruler is practically immortal.
Second, there are multiple examples of autocratic realms living well past their founders’ deaths, changing with the times (take Rome or the Holy Roman Empire); and of republics and democracies failing spectacularly, both to internal strife and outside invasion (take ancient Athens or medieval Novgorod).
Hm I suppose one mor thing to consider might be sucession: Rome definitely had a system of sucession in place. All the monarchies as another example settled that mainly based on “birthright”.
So while solomon is paractically immortal, he also seems to be quite tired of the job. at least sometimes. And without hin they would not have a fighting chance.
Well, thats still the question: How are “the people” supposed to forge their destiny in a universe full of superpowered demigods? Can they hire dave for security issues?
He probably will give up the throne to White Chain. She did technically win the tournament, making her the heir to the throne. It would also serve as a big FU from Solomon as he leaves her with the choice of taking the the throne and leading the empire, or letting it devolve into chaos. He is the only one that can allow people to pass between the worlds of his realm, and if he gives White Chain the key then she would have to rule, or just let the worlds of the Empire stand independently. She can’t really give the key over to a council because that would just devolve into bickering.
Demiurges can devolve part of the power of their key to subordinates, if I recall correctly. There’s nothing stopping her from splitting the key up equally between everyone and calling it a day.
I was previously under the assumption that the keys don’t really give much of a power boost and just signified that you had the power/cunning to control an empire of that scale, and that you control the only way in and out from the worlds that make up their empire.
Historians consider one of the Roman Empire’s glaring weaknesses to be its lack of succession. Because they remained a nominal Republic even as they devolved into a monarchy, they eschewed the terms and rules typical to a king. So emperors would typically name their heir–sometimes a biological son, sometimes not–but the political landscape was ripe for intrigue and civil war. Hence the Year of Four Emperors and the Year of Five Emperors.
No, the reason White Chain’s speech rings hollow is that democracy doesn’t just happen, and it certainly isn’t viable just because someone overthrows the strongman and declares the people free. Western representative governments were the result of centuries of developed politics, philosophies, religious underpinnings, and cultural mores. It’s more a historical wonder that the pieces could actually come together and remain stable for this long, because they are the exception to the rule, historically speaking.
That was my primary concern when I saw this. Does it make for awesome drama, yes. Does it make sense from a pragmatic perspective, no. I really hope Abbadon realizes this and has White Chain realize this
“Practically” Immortal is no immortality. Even the King of Kings fell. Why search so hard for a successor, if he feels he shall always be around?
Because a good leader plans for the worst case. Even if they believe they will win, no good leader doesn’t have a backup plan.
Interesting that the gang seems to have reached a final form… and they number seven.
Also very nice that this confirms they all have wills strong enough to manifest an atum halo or at least the beginning of one.
Finally, and most interesting, is that Zaid’s halo is the same color of Solomon’s
MMMHHHHHH….
I thought the pages before this looked good but HOT DAMN this one takes the cake! The team pose, solomon’s face, all of it! I love it!
The mass always wins
Only to be driven by demagogues and transform either into an autocracy far worse than before, or into a slaughterhouse. Consider the history of ancient Athens, or the French Revolution.
Be careful with that historical literacy. It isn’t welcomed by the Nmcurrent demagogues, either.
Gog-Agog popping the expensive wine tonight!
Sick problem sleuth reference bro
The team that overwhelmed the great King stands proud, and deservedly so.
…Also Zaid is here, I guess, because every group needs their Zoidberg.
I mean he’s been llugged around like a radioactive sports trophy for at least a year, then effectively held as a political prisoner for the past couple weeks, with all of the strongest beings in the universe under the assumption that he’s the anticrist. Man hasn’t really had a chance to do much.
I just realized that our hero group of 7 people have 7 fires over their heads just like a certain 7 demiurges. What a coincidence…
It could be that Solomon David will view these heroes just as new demiurges to take their thrones as many have before, but I cannot wait to see his reply.
Honestly I can see Salami Deposed going either way here; it’d be true to form for him to pridefully deny White Chain’s request and go down dishonorably, but it’d also be very interesting if pride manifested a different way and he assented.
I dunno, it’s almost like it’s a rad story.
White chain is over here really taking “Free the titty!” seriously
suns out tits out
A heretical truth that no soul in throne could bear the consequence of speaking. That true ROYALTY comes not from divine right, but from the consent of the governed.
Another thought: of all the seven demiurges, whose subjects are the most content? Who has the greatest consent of their people and would be treated most kindly if laid bare and helpless at the feet of those people?
The answer is easy – Mammon has been loved and cared for at his most helpless state for centuries, to the point that even those who had come to slay him turned to worship him. As for the others:
-Mottom seems to be feared and hated by the oppressed populace of her worlds and loved by her courtiers and mercs as long as she provides profit and banquets. They’d not hesitate to switch sides when the wind flew against her, and she knows this.
-We don’t know much about Incubus’s empire, other than he dabbles in dark arts and his tower is surrounded by emaciated addicts pleading for another dose of power. I suspect they’d rip him apart given the chance.
-Jadis’s domain is another mystery, but she seems venerated enough for a witch trapped in a crystal obelisk xD
-Solomon has provided a safe and civilised haven for his subjects, yet his anger is feared, his satraps are (or started out as) violent thugs, and the populace cheered when they saw the Emperor struck across the face. Plus his sons are likely to fight for the chance to be the Paternum in the place of the Paternum the second he’s out of it.
-Of Gog-Agog’s territory we don’t know anything. For all we know, her 111,111 worlds are all populated only by her worms, or, more likely, they’re a 1984+Brave New World dystopia where everyone must stay happy because you never know who is infected and who isn’t… This might prove pretty resilient, since the Mass doesn’t usually like to face uncomfortable truths, or collapse utterly if every single worm died at once.
-Finally, Jagganoth seems to have gathered about him a horde of bloodthirsty fanatics who worship him as the ultimate warrior. I think they’re just as likely to charge ahead of him to go out in a blaze while he recovers, as to tear him apart to grab his brow-star and gain his power for themselves.
Royalty comes neither from divine right nor from the consent of the governed. It depends solely on oneself. You are a fool to assume that one has to govern anyone in the first place to be Royalty.
Royalty is a continuous cutting motion. As such, it comes from a sharp knife, though not necessarily one made of metal.
Yess, it’s happening! She’s giving him an honorable way to bow out and free himself from the burden of running an empire. I can see the weariness in his eyes as he considers the opportunity, let’s hope that he uses it wisely. He would be a powerful ally!
Hahahaha, hell no, he will leave the story, none of this is his problem anymore?
Why would he ally himself with the guys that are giving him the option to finally stop having to bear responsibility?
The really remarkable thing is not that White Chain now has tits, but how many people seem to be obsessed with White Chain having tits.
You might think there were other priorities at the moment, for example the fate of one seventh of the universe, but apparently tits are the big deal.
Fellow Votaries,
In this moment White Chain is the Incarnate Goddess of Liberty ! She hath become Marianne who calls ever for Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité ! She who calls for Freedom, and opposes monarchies and other oppressors.
She stands boldly, secure in her self-confidence, and she is not ashamed of herself, her body or her demands.
Yes, it’s symbolic AND makes for a great scene.
Empires – get busted by the Feminine Goddess of Liberty !
“Busted”
Oneiromancer knows many puns
Tits are more important than 1/7th of the universe being conquered by a mass of worms because their leader decided to leave them after an angel punched him.
Just, from a basic logistics stand point, Solomon David is almost assuredly not solely and personally responsible for repulsing worm infestations across 1/7th of the universe. He simple cannot be in enough places at once.
Either she is not that interested in subsuming all those worlds or they’ve developed countermeasures that don’t require a demiurge.
Corks?
I like how the focus is on how ‘nasty old Solomon can’t give up his power’ and not on ‘the other six will murderrape literally everyone if he does’.
This valley is broad and beautiful. It may have one Yem Yeddo, but it contains many more stones.
Oh yes, and it’s not like the multitude subjects of the others of the Seven can cast stones just as well.
Stones aren’t going to impress the other Demiurges much. 😉
But seriously, the only reason the other Six haven’t conquered the Celestial Empire is because it belongs to one of them. The moment Solomon David steps down, it practically guarantees that all the other Demiurges invade with all their might. To hesitate would mean giving an advantage to those who don’t.
And while I can imagine the Celestial Empire keeping things together without Solomon David (at least in the short run), because it’s very much a realm of law and order, and bureaucracies tend to be very stable, once the people realize they are now ruling themselves, I’d expect the result to be chaos. Remember, there is NO democratic tradition in the Empire. Solomon David has been the absolute ruler for longer than most Earth empires have existed. Remember the chaos that ensued after the fall of the Soviet Union? Russia also had no experience with democracy (excepting ten months in 1917 that ended in the Bolshewik revolution). In fact, most people in those days expected a new, extreme-rightist dictatorship to develop in short order. In a way, it did; yet Putin kept the democratic structure in place, which means that Russia got a measure of stability while the Russian people could get used to democracy. (Not that Putin planned it that way, but still, Russia under him has been democratic for longer than ever before.) But anyway: if Solomon David steps down and somehow his Empire ISN’T overrun by his fellow Demiurges, I would expect mob rule and chaos to eventually ensue.
They are gonna be just fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine, White Chain said so herself.
Plus there’s no way Gog-Agog has been planning this for a while, she is just gonna leave and leave them alone.
The greatest swordman can easily be brought down by three competent swordmen who absolutely want to win.
The seven have done a very clever trick and that is to make people think they are neccesary for peace and stability, even though they are the ones responsible for the gruesome conflict that inspired their laughably shaky peace.
Hell, two of the seven are in open conflict, so much for them being crucial to keep the people safe.
That’s my biggest fear – Solomon seems to be the demiurge most likely to support the protagonists, but I have a feeling the moment he turns from the Seven the rest will immediately merc him.
While I don’t claim the foresight of Janis, I think I have an inkling of where this is going. Forgive me if other wiser readers have already voiced this.
When Zoss says to “break the wheel” I think he means to destroy the gates that connect all 777,777 universes. Right now the Demiurges control the gates to their universes, but since the Key of Kings controls ALL the gates, Allison is in a good position to figure out how to do that.
Once the gates are down, each universe can sort itself out, whether for good or bad, without influence from Throne and the demiurges. It has been said there are unconquered worlds (like Allison’s home world), so ALL worlds could become like that.
Of course, it doesn’t help the ruined worlds of Gog Agog that are nothing but worms.
Shhhh, the other 5 murder rapist don’t want the people to know what will happen to them.
I don’t think Mammon will come and ravage this part of the universe, so i don’t count him, he is supposed to be the nice demiurge.
Aha! White Chain knows having your party members stand behind you in a dramatic pose grants a +1 bonus on Diplomacy checks. With a +6 bonus, there’s no way this roll can fail.
Boobs.
The power of boobs compels you!
My Sister is truly a marvel of our kind. She has surpassed us all in the ways of true freedom. The iron fist is still iron, no matter how much it wraps itself in velvet. The Tyrant does not deserve to rule, for none deserve to claim station over another.
I’m conflicted on this.
I like the conflict, and it would make me happy if SD chose to relinquish his grasp.
But this is a cursed universe where Gog-Agog, and the other demiurges, exists. Zoss allowed for a wicked wheel.
Leaving the Celestial Empire to the mercilessness of the other Six… It would be a terrible fate and a dereliction of duty. It would be very out of character for Solomon to do such a thing.
If the most abbhorent of the Seven where out of the equation, I could imagine SD complying and giving up his power. Right now it would be very uncharacteristic of him.
It is possible to have a society with a defence force that it not the ruling power.
I wonder if this is true in a universe where godlike beings are literally facts of life.
It’s comfortable to imagine we can overthrow tyrants with the power of mass. That the many can always overcome the few.
But is it true in the k6bd universe? I am not so sure. It is wicked. What if Zoss came to you and demanded things? Could you refuse without paying the ultimate price? It feels unlikely no matter how many friends you have. He slaughtered the Prime Angels, single handedly.
When one individual can train and become godlike, like all the seven did, and the other demiurges, the defense force needs to be godlike too.
You forget, Zoss *explicitly* backs Allison, and Zaid as well. Whoever Allison supports, has Zoss’s consent. Secondly, you hit the nail on the head. Anyone can train to reach the level of a Demiurge. The only reason the Seven are the only ones is a direct result of the Seven constantly, systematically, and brutally supressing potential competitors. This People’s Republic can easily be both free and well-defended, without Abaddon needing to pull a Deus Ex out of his ass.
That is my point. If Dave really wants his worlds to be secure, he can act as defence force without actually exercising the power of ruler. Although, to be really democratic, he should run for election. That way any worlds that would prefer the current stability of rule can opt for it, and any worlds that prefer to govern themselves can opt for that. Either way, they get Dave acting as bouncer for any other uppity demiurges. This should still allow more time for Dave to indulge in his other interests, which is what he wants.
White Chain is still adjusting to her own body. She knows that modesty is a sociatal necessity but clothing habits die hard and she never had had breasts before.
Among all the things to ask of a ruler, asking them to vacate the seat that gives them their power is the biggest reqeust of them all. The way they respond to this one is the true test of their character.
White chain said tiddy and democracy
You said, lamenting, “until a better age, I suppose.”
Good Solomon David, wise king, laudable king, that better age is now. Or it will never come, because you will be waiting until the day breath becomes such a chore even Ki Rata cannot sustain thee.
There is an age for kings as there is an age for gods. That age is ending. It is time for Royalty to cut itself a new shape.
The art is great as usual. As for the plot… now I’m pretty much frightened. As Jacek Dukaj wrote wisely, democracy is against the laws of physics; in KSBD universe it’s likely against the metaphysical laws as well. And, as commenters already pointed above, suggesting the people’s law when Gog-Agog is around is… frigging crime, I guess. Do you really want the mass to win?
Well, the years of reading this comic make me hope that this situation will have a resolution intricate and satisfying enough. Let us wait for it.
Democracy is a highly unusual and highly unstable governmental outcome as you have pointed out but it is not required here. People governing themselves could go any number of ways. Many of them dark but many new.
I too am hopeful
I love how the entire party has looks of noble determination on their faces, except for Cio and Princess, who are just giving Solomon the most insufferable shit eating grins
Not that strange. Devils love chaos, and they can already see that this will lead to chaos on an incredible scale. Also, of course, they love to see a Demiurge humiliated. Just because.
Solomon:”Hmm Boobies”
WC: “…give up your throne, hand the empire to the people …”
SD: “OK, you got it. I’m done.”
(SD departs by division)
WC: “…after a carefully-planned hand-over of power… Wait, where’d he go? Come back, we’re not ready yet. Who’s going to manage the transition? … That’s me now, isn’t it? Shit.”
Oooh I wish it was that simple…
At this point I believe in such vast and expansive world as this one pure democracy (how I understand what is being proposed here) will not work. Too many different species, believes, morals, standards… Total chaos and probably stagnation almost guaranteed. You need a strong leadership. An iron will of one or preferably a number of people,, that won’t allow this “country” to tear itself apart.
But it’s gotta be said, Solomon needs to delegate some power, losen the gripp and don’t center everything on himself. This way the country will be more ready to move on after/if he steps down.
I reeeeeaaaaally hope he thinks it over and not just blindly steps down.
How would you even organize it? Solomon David’s Empire encompsses 111,111 UNIVERSES! He’s basically kept it together through just rule, a cult of personality and by recruiting the most badass fighters of all the universes as his subordinates. Peace and prosperity as the carrott, a quick and inescapable beat down as the stick. Imagine trying to organize elections across so many worlds. Imagine the number of competing parties!
Any organization he set up would just be a continuation of what he has been doing, taking care of his children “Your own vision is insufficient, here let me take care of you.” People must provide their own vision and are capable of doing so. The children are grown. They must be allowed to live their life. Let them go.
I suspect that it would have to be “hand over the empire to the peoples”, plural, making each universe independent. I can’t see 111,111,111 worlds agreeing on enough to be a working federation.
At which point most worlds will panic. Roll D6 to pick a new demiurge protector.
Bruh. Is that a typo, or have ya failed to read the comic? It’s 111,111 worlds. And they have Allison and Friends Right There. Not to mention, even if our Little Godslayers move right along, Mammon is already (sorta) on their side, Incubus is sucking up to Allison, Meti (Incubus’ leash-holder) is watching and approving in her way, Mottom is *fucked* and Solomon is seriously considering abdication. At this point, the only two that would be problematic are Gog and Jagganoth, and Gog isn’t nearly as much of a threat to a well-run empire as many of the Monarchists (I’m not calling you one, you just sound like one. The others in these comments, though…. half of what they say is just code for “I wanna live in a fascist country as first-class citizen”) in these comments want to believe. Gog has nothing to offer a happy woman, and many of the dissatisfactions in the Celestial Empire come from Solomon’s Sons using the legislature of the Empire as weapons against each other. Even if he was still the god of the empire, it would be much better run if he stopped being Emperor.
Yes, 111,111,111 worlds is a typo and 111,111 is the correct number; still to many for a working federation — could you imagine the USA, or the EU or even the UN with that many members?.
Is “Meti” also a typo? I though she died some time ago, at Incubus’ hand. Perhaps you mean Maya?
If you are correct about the low threat to the ex-Imperial worlds (I’m not convinced yet, but we’ll find out soon, presumably), it doesn’t mean that they won’t make hasty, bad alliances. Whether or not they do so, and whether they look to Allison as protector, might depend on how they receive the information from Rayuba. I’m assuming here that there is not real-time TV coverage between worlds. Allison is right there only on one world.
Fair enough and… it mever works perfectly. The EU doesn’t really count. It would be like if Canada, Mexico, and The United States of the Trail of Tesrs tried to extend NAFTA into a miniature UN. But, to answer your question more straightforwardly, while it’ll have a bunch of jankiness even on good days, what governance doesn’t? England, just england, still has fractious shit despite basically having more representatives than counties. The Imperium is working fairly well under its feudal model, despite the best thing that usually comes from the High Lords noticing your world is overtaxation. The federation of Planets works fairly well in Star Trek, the main difference being that they basically have godlike minds enforcing just rule, rather than godlike powers enforcing their rule. And uh, Star Wars? Granted, they went through nearly as many revolutions as the French, but they gave good effort, and half the time if you weren’t in a combat zone, it wasn’t that bad regardless. Unless you’re a nonhuman during the empire. Which makes sense, given the deliberate and explicit fascist parallels.
The short version is yes? While there would be secessions and re-admissions near-constantly, and factions would occasionally pick intra-federation wars, it’s no different from real life or fiction, and external threats would serve to unite. For example, in star wars, the imperial remnant and second republic unute against the yuzhan vong, in 40k basically every faction will unite against the tyranids, etc etc (I apologize, I can’t currently be assed for real life examples, though i can find them tomorrow if you want me to add them in another comment)
Nah, pretty sure Maya is another student of Meti’s, and… noap. Last I checked, Meti ten Ryo still draws breath. She’s just pulling a Diogenes somewhere in the working-class/poorer districts of Throne.
And yeah, they’re gonna do dumb shit, but it’s nkt gonna make them any safer or more endangered than they were doing previously. The Sons of Solomon were already using the bureaucracy to throw shitfits at each other, and the Empure still runs. Gog Agog still weaves her webs of propaganda, and Mottom and Mammon still have footholds for their trade empires. Hell, maybe we’ll be lucky. By the time news reaches the fringes about Solomon’s abdication, Jagganoth might be dead already!
Also, congrats on being one of the few post-Bob commentors who isn’t a fedora-wearer. You seem like you’ve at least glanced at more than the last ten pages of the comic (unlike pompous crypto-racist asshats such as “Illusion of Peace and Justice”), and you try harder than I do to maintain an air of humility. I wish you the best, and may these monarchists fuck off so we can all go back to roleplaying in peace.
it’s not that easy to think about reforming a millennial empire by turning it into a direct democracy when you have angel tits in your face
They shiny objects to distract your attention while the machinations of power shift behind the scenes.
I know this is an extremely sentimental take but if Solomon tells White Chain that she reminds him of one of his daughters I will cry
He does have that misty-eyed look about him.
Solomon David looks truly inscrutable in the last panel. Almost like he’s seriously considering it. Plus, like I said last episode, I think he’s got other things on his mind right now. Like the collapse of the dream world he’s been living in all these years.
SD has the look of someone making the uncomfortable realisation that getting exactly what he wanted may not be exactly what he wants. I suspect that given time he may not be the only one.
Oh, and interestingly, Zaid stands close to Nyaeve, not Allison. They seemed to click when they met. Are we seeing the begining of a ship?;)
that would honestly be so cute!
Also, look at the postural congruence of Cio and Nyave. Both standing by their preferred partners.
Time to knock out the slipway wedges.
He knew this was coming. He was even trying to find a successor.
But he will refuse and expose himself for what he is.
das wot a think
He was looking for a clone of himself, someone ambitious and strong enough to take his own unstoppable force down. Someone who would stay in his place and do exactly as he did before, so he could move on without fear of losing his home again. But just like Allison forced Mottom to face her own fear of mortality, White Chain is forcing Solomon to face his fear of letting others decide for themselves and live on without his protection.
His greates fear seems to be that without him, the people will be subject to the same horrors Rayuba was at the beginning of the Great War. That’s why he’s done all this. And he’s not wrong: the moment he leaves the people in charge, the other Demiurges will see his realm as easy pickings. So far, we haven’t seen normal people put up any effective resistance to the Demiurges. Although Mottom seemed to be afraid of her subjects. Or maybe the nobles that served her.
Well, I think it’s likely they’d try to rip her Key off her brow if she showed how weak she really is (or was, before she got pissed off xD). She’s a victim of her own success too
Place your bets on how fast the kingdom goes to shit.
A Monarchist? In this enlightened Age? Truly the one I am responding to has repeatedly failed to grasp that the biggest threat to a rule of the people is the people who would subvert it to put their king back on the throne. They know of the other Demiurges, dear. Many know how and why to defend against him. This new empire might shrink as it caught its footing, but it will not dissolve.
Don’t be silly. A single demiurge on their lonesome could take on the entirety of the Celestial Empire by themselves. This isn’t like the real world, where you just need 2.5% of a country’s population to rise up in arms for them to succesfully overthrow the government. This is a world where there are literal demigods so ridiculously powerful that even if every single last one of their subjects rose up against them, they would still not stand even the slightest chance of winning.
A democracy, in the K6BD multiverse, could only possible last if it was being protected or defended by a sufficiently powerful entity, or maybe multiple of them. But those entities can’t do that forever. No matter how powerful you are, you’re still mortal. And once they’re gone, all it will take is one demigod waltzing in to completely break apart your democracy. Its a completely hopeless situation.
Yes, some egalitarian-minded commenters here seem to be forgetting the existence of literal demigods, wielding vast power… Real-world notions of democracy are less than valid here.
My poor friend, the entire theme of this comic is personal growth accomplishes more than a DragonBall Z training montage in terms of raw power. Every Demiurge knows this, and further, knows their time is limited. It’s explicitly stated that Mammon only lives because the Priests of The Count protect him. Even Demiurges need consent and backing of their people to last.
Hell, if you want a world that truly does have no better option than a dictatorship, flee to the Imperium of Man. Except for the fact that there are entire glitterworlds running on pure Communism, and are allowed to do so if they pay tithes on time, and the Imperium is very obviously crumbling under the overtight grip of the Adeptus Terra.
That’s nonsense. Solomon’s rule is held up by literally no one but himself, and this applies to effectively every Demiurge. Mammon is an exception to the rule, primarily because he’s too depressed to actually care. If he “maintained” himself like the other demiurges, he would be just as invincible as they are.
Jagganoth is perhaps the best example of this. Space-time warper that is completely and totally invincible. You could drop Earth’s entire nuclear arsenal on his face and he wouldn’t feel it.
Mottom is another good example of this. You really think there is anyone supporting her rule? If not for the fact that she can literally just slaughter people with nothing more than a glance, every subject she has would betray her in a day.
As for personal growth accomplishing more than Dragonball Z training when it comes to raw power… then why are the Demiurges, who are at the top of the list when it comes to raw power, basically the least personally accomplished people ever? Literally all of them hate their own lives and the state they are in. If what you said was true, then the strongest people around would just be a bunch of happy old people living their own lives away from this multiversal mess, and the Demiurges wouldn’t be any stronger than a normal human.
Also, for the Imperium of Man, the Adeptus Terra very much does not have an overtight grip. The Imperium is a barely held together feudalist confederacy where every world has a different culture and system of government, with their only similarities being that they pay tithe. Like, that’s it. The Imperium isn’t crumbling because its a dictatorship- it may as well not even be a singular entity- its crumbling because its too big and is being grinded down from all sides. There is quite literally nothing they could have done to prevent their state. If the Primarchs and the Emperor were still in charge, that wouldn’t have happened, and hey, looks like we’ve gone back to the “Superpowered demigods > mortal humans” deal.
Yes! Solomon should remain the protector of his worlds against the other demiurges should they brazenly attack… but he must not meddle in the interior affairs of state(s).
That may be more bloody for a while, but a better and stronger world may yet emerge. And once it has, Solomon can retire for good.
Perhaps this could be a mutually beneficial arrangement. While Solomon remained glued to his throne, he could not possibly move an inch on the path to true Royalty. Now that this heavy burden has been transformed into a heavy loss, he has the opportunity to forge a blade of want in the fires of his vengeance.
But will he shattered Diamond truly accept his defeat? This is the real challenge. Surely David Solomon must have realized that a lone tyrant at the pinnacle of perfection is his own worst enemy. Now the time has finally come where he must face himself. That which is broken can be repaired, but only if his pride permits himself to do so.
“The path to a true people’s rule will take many years, and the work of many hands. To oversee it would be a truly staggering task. 82 White Chain Born In Emptiness Returns To Subdue Evil, now free of your chains, blood of my first blood in ten thousand years… I name you my successor. That task falls to you. [beat] You remind me so much of my youngest daughter. Perhaps one day I’ll tell you about her.”
Yo, am I crazy or is everyone in the team manifesting a visible Atum flame?
It’s not exactly clear to me whether that flame belongs to the individual team member, or that this is simply one of WC’s flames taking on the color of a nearby team mate to make them look cool.
I think it’s interesting positioning, with pairings of Alison&Cio, Vigilant Gaze&Princess, and Zaid&Nyaeve, with White Chain standing alone.
This has been the Shipping Forecast. Back to you, Abbadon.
the ride had to end eventually mate, but fuck it, build a new empire if you feel like it. wait a thousand years or some, and no one will be alive to remember the first one.
god like abs, gives me goals.
Yem Yeddo seems to have more in common with Mottom than with Solomon David. This could be a mistake.
Rock on rope.
Goliath, hope
and Antiope
and before you forget:
I know, and yet
Which Antiope, exactly?
Come Solomon. You can be like Intra. You need only choose to be so.
He even has the advantage of already being sober.
The Golden Path. The tyrant must leave his people to chaos now.
No government is permanent. All fall and crumble eventually, to be replaced by another. One headed by an immortal might be especially long-lasting.
But it too falls. The advantages of modern democracies are smooth transitions and mutability. But such a system needs order at its core to work.
White Chain speaks true – the current peace WILL shatter the moment Solomon David leaves. Or abdicates.
Do it, Davey, mate.
REMEMBER THEIR FACES. REMEMBER THEIR NAMES. THINK OF THEM OFTEN, AND GIVE TO THE FLAMES.
TITS OUT FOR DEMOCRACY!!
Great idea, White Chain. Just let us know how to safeguard the newly free people from being conquered by any of the other Demiurges – and we can get this show on the road.
This seven part world is broad and beautiful. It may have seven Demiurges, but it contains many more stones.
I fear Solomon David will be too prideful to let go as he may feel the people cannot prosper without his lead. The most damning attribution to this is he feels he is the only one capable of such a thing. That is how I at least read him.
“Listen, strange monks living in isolation and distributing breath based Kung Fu is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power comes from the mandate of the masses not from some farcical pressure point martial art.
You can’t expect to wield supreme executive power just because some old fart bestowed good punching technique upon you”
-Dennis, the Oppressed.
Good stuff! Not at all what I expected. But so much more interesting for it!
Nyave’s atum is green, just like Gog’s. It was green the first time we saw it in King of Swords 7-67, but that was after Gog had been skulking around their apartment. Hmmmm…
The alt-text made me laugh loud and long.
Honestly, that’s a pretty terrible idea when the only thing protecting Solomon’s people from other, way worse dictators is Solomon himself. If Solomon withdraws, his former lands will be taken by the others in what would likely be brutal warfare. If Solomon steps down from ruling but stays around as a deterrent to the other six, then it’s still Solomon who has the real power no matter what puppet the people choose to sit on the throne. It’s like when a country has a weak democracy and a strong military. Sure, there’s a president, but we all know the top general is the one with the REAL power. Except it’s even worse, because Solomon effectively IS the military all by himself, so it’s not like you could even have the possibility of some of the military backing the legitimate ruler. Solomon has no need to appease anyone in order to secure power, Solomon IS power. There is no give and take, no checks and balances, when one man can kill and army before his shirt hits the floor.
All this really does is destabilize the only dictator of the seven who’s even attempting to rule benevolently. I get where White Chain is coming from, but I simply don’t see how her ideals would work in a multiverse like KSBD
First, you forget that Allison has the Master Key, Cio has a fanclub despite no longer being Ebon, Nyave already knows how to organize people, Zaid spent his time in the Celestial empire being directly tutored by Solomon, and White Chain was *already* building a new faction of angels, even before she finished transitioning. Our little Godslayers can, together, hold the Empire steady while it regains its feet.
Also. Why you gotta do my boy Mammon dirty like that? While the bankers are shit to their debtors, Mammon himself is a big ol’ grandpa to his faction.
“Supreme executive power comes from a mandate of the masses, not some rock in your head!”
Now, if Solomon is smart, he’ll agree. This empire is a good one, and can grow without him. It doesn’t need him.
Time to go make a NEW empire some place that DOES need him. He’ll enjoy that.
The curse of writing, or role playing, a character beyond your intelligence or experience is that you are always still limited to your experience and imagination. Still love this comic, but this is a perfect example.
White Chain’s complaint that the illusion of peace and justice cannot last beyond Solomon is the error made by someone who lives a finite life. Her alternative offers no discernible difference. The illusion of ‘civility’ and ‘justice’ of self government will only last so long as a culture embraces it. Her option is no less finite; it is no less mortal.
Democracy is the tyranny of the many, and the illusion of it’s civility remains only so long as cultural norms reinforce it as just. We see it now in America, as the relentlessly oppressed raise their voices against the central culture that has embraced the pain of the downtrodden for the enrichment of those deemed righteous. Once their cries turn public opinion to their cause, and cultural norms shift to their acceptance, these same groups will in turn do to other’s as was done to them as they gain greater access to government. For the exercise of governance is always an act of aggression and violence. State policy is the continuation of war by other means.
A being as old as White Chain would know that peace is not an ideal we achieve, but that it is instead an illusion, a moment in time between pain: the eye of the storm of contest. White Chain’s moment of growth should have been a recognition that justice is equally illusive. Justice is not some Platonic Form or Ideal we chase; it is an emotional appeal we use as a balm to assuage our guilt over our wrath. Her denial of the righteous path to forge her own truth should have been a moment of growth beyond the petty lies we clothe ourselves in. This speech is not hopeful; it is vainglorious and intellectually shallow.
Wholeheartly agreed with your take on this.
Sir and or ma’am, this entire comic is thematically centered around hero narratives. This is not actually about governance. This is about creating a foil. A fallen hero who saved a world and then never learned to let go. The burden must be taken up by others. Those who master the Wheel cannot break it.
But also: have you not been paying attention to what an authoritarian garbage fire Solomon’s empire is? Where lying to officials results in execution? Where they take children from people and never let their parents see them again? Sex with active soldiers result in 6 months hard labor? Or your citizenship and thus all your meager rights can be revoked for being a soldier who had sex? Did you not see all those people who rather kill Solomon than live in the lap of luxury in the previous fight? You really think democracy is worse than THIS? Solomon isn’t a philosopher king, he is, in fact, a tyrant. And White Chain is right to try to reform such a government, even if she’s putting her request in terms she knows Solomon wants to hear.
Ah! The list of slights and wrongs of the other. Our blows against each other turn the wheel again as we dream of a pure and imagined justice – a lie, justifying our own acts of violence against others, just as they did before as well. Each telling ourselves, “At least I am not them, the Other!” Government’s a boot no-matter it’s shape, it fits a foot & neck, there’s no escaping this fate. We yearn for a contradiction that cannot exist, for there is no rule without violence: someone always suffers under the wrath of the other. When God chose existence beyond Itself, It chose conflict. Only a void or a return to a singularity can yield a different result.
There
Is
No
Alternative
That
Does
Not
End
(More or Less)
The
Same
Only the flavor of the boot polish is ever different. If she can learn, White Chain should know this by now, or she should still be growing towards it. Coming to terms with the pain of this truth should be the arc of her story – the conflict between the self and the other. That there is no perfect answer that removes this so long as both exist, and that both existing is the bittersweet, painful effing point.
So much of her pain through her existence has been self inflicted as she ascribed to a lie of righteousness that did not fit. She indulged in this pain for a false comfort, this lie of righteousness, that only ever brought her more pain; not a balm at all, this false comfort. More than anyone, she should recognize that we cannot remove the innate conflict within existence. More than anyone she should know that any change will still yield conflict and pain, albeit conflict of another flavor. This struggle has been her entire existence. It is fine if she has not reached this point in her growth, but her transformation suggests a climax of character growth within the story, and it should be either a visual representation of this or the final source of conflict that drives her further towards this end growth.
Instead, after this faux climax, she has only brought an end to Solomon’s temporary lie of peace more quickly than it otherwise would have ended. This is not erroneous in itself, but her justification for doing so is inherently erroneous. She lies to herself that she can build something different in any measurable manner. She cannot; this is the blessed state of existence. She has effectively become Solomon the Second, long may she reign (transient as it is). And the Majority of the Mob will effectively become Solomon the Third, long may they reign (transient as that will be). She upends a lie to insert her own; all the while she lies to herself and says, “At least I am not him, Solomon!” I am sure Solomon comforted himself with precisely the same lie when he failed to let go; we all do, after all. It is the ever present, nefarious lie of justice. Mammon & his Priests of the Count could not keep track of the tally of conflict this lie has created.
We expect our heroes to lie to existence; to demand a change be recognized and succeed. This is heroic. But we also demand our heroes be honest with themselves and with us, the readers, as failure to do so makes them false to us in a way that is unforgivable. White Chain is dishonest with herself in a way that she should have grown past by now, or she should be in the grips of still wrestling with this demon. And this is the failing of the comic. She did not grow in an appreciable way; she repeats the same mistake UNAWARE she is doing so when she had such a unique opportunity for growth. A nearly singular existence that should shape a singular view…that instead fails just as the rest of us fail and views the world through repetitive eyes. This moment is precisely what it first looked like when Solomon failed to let go; she is holding on with a death grip to this lie of rationalizing rule of law and a belief in the eternal (both false). She thinks this is change because it feels different; it is not. The act of her request is self contradicting, and she therefor represents precisely the same thing Solomon does: A fallen hero who saved a world and then never learned to let go. She fails to acknowledge the world cannot be saved as it is. There is no changing this as things stand.
And so the Wheel turns, and turns, and turns. Never changing except in our perspective. After all, that is what a wheel does. How sad; it is enough to make a stone weep.
Small caveat: My hope is that the author will have Solomon call White Chain out on all of the above as he abdicates the throne, that White Chain witnesses the conflict & pain her lack of honesty creates, and that this pushes her further towards her final bit of character growth. I doubt it, as I believe the author would have saved her physical transformation for that moment, and it’s simply baffling she would even believe this is a good option in the first place. This is, likely, effectively White Chain. Sadly, I expect we have what we see: a being as old as existence that has all the same arrogance and failings as me. Some heroes you just expect to be genuinely heroic; unlike the majority of the murder hobos throughout the stories we tell ourselves. White Chain was one of them for me.
I’m not going to go into ideology with you here, because I don’t see it going anywhere, but White Chain hasn’t asked Solomon to give up the power of his key nor his investment in the life of the empire… she’s reminded him of what he already knows, which is “when you die, it dies. Unless you let it grow.”
She’s not saying”throw the whole place to the wolves”, she’s saying “give it the opportunity to grow, change, and develop agency.”
Growth can be painful and the empire may change drastically or only a little, but once it can stand on its own two feet, it has a chance of surviving after Solomon or whatever other demiurge exists.
She’s not asking him to quit everything, just to stop micro-managing every element of the empire.
So, tl;dr:
White Chain is not advocating for peace or even specifically democracy, but rather the growth-change-agency cycle that survival depends on.
Solomon’s empire is stagnation incarnate.
She litterly asked him to give up the throne. She didn’t say let the people decide what goes in your empire. Sge said to let them just take control and decide.
Well said. If White Chain had chastised Solomon for creating an Empire who’s conditions were incapable of producing a proper heir, THAT would have made infinitely more sense than this democratic schlock. Democracy — ESPECIALLY in such a world as this — enjoys no special status. It is not more noble than imperial rule, and indeed, is usually less so.
Perhaps White Chain wishes for the people of Solomon’s empire to forge a destiny from each other’s blood? That would be the result of what she proposes.
I hadn’t thought of that, but it would make quite a bit more sense for her to chastise him for that. He clearly revels in producing no suitable heir. It seems to feed his ego that none can measure up to him even as its a source of solitude and anguish. I don’t understand why she would care that the people repeat the same process that Solomon once did but in a more regular fashion.
It’s true. If there was such thing as a thing as a truly benevolent immortal god-king, I’d say leave him to it. Whether Solomon David fits that description is not clear, but it seems unlikely.
Perhaps America is not a good example of democracy because it isn’t a democracy at all. Regardless of the system of government, people’s blood will be spilt. A more important thing to focus on is corruption, which is unavoidable. Can you build a system capable of recognising and fighting against corruption?
Yes. You simply have to install Watchers. Then you get someone to Watch the Watchers. I’m…unsure who Watches the Watchers of the Watchers, but I’m sure we can figure that one out later. It seems unimportant.
And true, America is not a democracy but rather a republic. However, while many nations use a democratic style system for election, I don’t believe there has ever been a true democracy in the world. A system where every citizen votes equally on every issue rather than simply electing a representative to do it for you? Sounds exhaustive. Most of us Americans can’t be bothered to vote once every few years.
Athens had a true, participating democracy for a while, but their definition of “citizens” was narrow: only men, and only those owning sufficient land. And many of the eligible citizens missed most debates because they were away from the city managing their estates.
If all adults are citizens, then you can’t have all citizens engaging in all debates and votes; there isn’t enough time.
I interpret the issue as one of change itself. Solomon David’s empire is solid, as the God King makes it so. In its rigidity, it refutes change.
This also reflects White Chain’s past- 1 Michael and his inane ramblings in reference to the Cycle, infertile and unchanging.
White Chain wishes for the Celestial Empire to take its own reigns. For better or for ill.
This is such a hilariously bad idea I do NOT think white chain is thinking this through at all. She just gained a new body and won a fight she (lets be real) would not have won without plot armor.
Now she wants to give the Key to the people???
Gog Agog is. Right. There.
You know the demiurge thats takes over…PEOPLE.
I do not foresee this ending well at all…
Giving up the empire does not require that Solomon gives up his key. He can flounce off, leaving all his gates wide open, and do Royal things with his god-power.
By give key he means leave control. Which if he does gog can swoop in and take over enough people to where got is ruling the democracy.
Giving his people agency is not the same as giving up all his power and stake in the well-being of his empire.
White Chain is asking him to let his people grow and change so that one day they can control their own destiny. She isn’t asking him to throw them to the wolves: quite the opposite.
Solomon knows the empire dies with him. White Chain knows. She’s asking him to save it by letting it _change._ This may be a painful process (as with all growth) but if it can stand on its own two feet, when Solomon is inevitably defeated or dies, the empire will be different but not annihilated.
But what if the people have a preference for letting Solomon handle all the demiurge stuff, and don’t want to rule themselves? It seems like White Chain should at least ask the crowd about their opinion on this…
Aye, people have much more important things to think about than ruling.
White Chain isn’t asking him to give up all his power or stake in the empire, simply to let it grow, change and develop its own agency. It will be a transition. Solomon will be free to do as he will, but I suspect he will choose to protect his empire from the interests of the other demiurges, but let the empire grow organically according to the will of the people, should he accept White Chain’s words.
No no NO, oh Father and Lord, NO! I will have to apply for an entirely separate set of permits for hygenic and lawful food service, and it will be ages until I even know to whom! We’ve just expanded and rent will come due–please no! Stay with us!
Surebaet Noodles–it’s a “sure bet” you’ll love your bowl!
This is the perfect excuse to just bail man, take it!
If shit hits the fan you can blame it on the “angel” who defeated you on combat and asked for it, it is a free get out of jail card!
This probably will never happen again, you got to retire early, vacations my dude!
I don’t know how wise that would be in the long run, when one of the clearly evil people in very close contact with Solomon is a kind of person that can be many.
What’s with all the monarchists in the chat?
Kinda cringe ngl.
Honestly thought, given the story of this comic, it’d mostly be anarchists who would be willing to read this far.
Maybe they’re all anarcho-monarchists?
It’s super creepy! Any epic fantasy is going to bring its share of paleocons who are there because they love feudalism but whew this is a lot
Methinks our reprobate Bob brought “friends” of his ideals when he circumvented his ban.
It is the nature of the beast that when you take action against the reprehensible, it whines into the void to summon fellow cultists of its kind.
(Out of character translation: I’m willing to bet that Bob whined to a ‘chan when he got banned, so they could dogpile the comments. That way, eventually Abaddon is forced to disable comments, and they can claim “victory” by whining to twitter later about “muh freeze peach”)
Good point, but also bold to assume this is a chan board mobilizing and not one very determined dude with a VPN. I’ve been thinking half these guys who use that specific archaic/pompous nerd register like saying “Ah!” are the comment troll version of “my paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall” I don’t comment here often enough to know the political slant, but I know the in-character additions to the liturgy like rabbinic commentary has been a huge part of the community, and if you’re being raided I’m sorry to hear it.
Okay. I’ll drop the rp until the Pomposities are gone. (My name for these fuckers because only one of them are even close to arguing in good faith, and the rest sound like someone taught Ben Shapiro to sound like an englishman.)
But simply put, I feel like there’s at least three, maybe four, because the “voice” of each is suitably different beyond Bob’s ability to replicate. (Remember, Bob was banned specifically because of his being a particularly dense and bellicose example of the Dunning Kruger effect) For example, 42 Fragments, while posting some bad takes, and borderline bad faith, at least puts soke effort into a respectful tone, and even seemingly broke with the hive in asking not to be called a monarchist, while none of the others have even implied they noticed people calling them monarchists for simping on Salami Daddy. Versus “Illusion of Peace And Justice” who sounds like someone tried to gentrify tumblr discourse, and honestly reads like a cryptofascist.
So while I’ll agree that a couple of these do smell like VPN abuse, there’s enough voices involved that Bob had to source them from somewhere else, either the more obnoxious parts of Reddit, or (judging by the lack of “kys fa***t”) the “better” parts of 4chan. (8chan is right out. Abaddon woulda made a blog post about being doxxed by now.)
What did Bob do that was worthy of being banned? Genuinely Curious.
C’mon solomon, you dont even *like* being emperor
Suppose that Solomon abdicates, takes away his key, and is not robbed of it by the other 6. Suppose that Allison locks all the gates to the Worlds of the Celestial ex-Empire with the master key. Are those worlds then safe?
He’s not asked to give up his Key, just his Empire. At least, that’s how I read White Chain’s request.
Yes, I agree. My point is, if Solomon’s key is secure and Allison locks the gates, can the demiurges other than Solomon invade the ex-imperial worlds or are they robustly locked out?
Logic would say they’re locked, just like “our” Earth is locked until Mottom chooses to open the door. That’s not to say Demiurges haven’t found ways to crack those locks open in the millennia they’ve been fighting each other xD
Establishing democracy through a fist fight just like George Washington!
Anyone who has study history knows this won’t end well for Solomon’s kingdom.
Something I just noticed: in the last panel, does it seem to anybody else that Cio is ogling White Chain? Or is that just me?
The only thing Solomon is thinking about is “nice buns yo ugot there”.
Shaking in fear and anticipation.
There’s one big problem-the powerful are in a place where there is a monopoly of ability to commit and survive violence.
Think for a moment about Earth. Whatever else can be said about humans on Earth-there is not a single human being that cannot be slain by another human with a well-placed dagger or bullet. They might be skilled, they might be armored, they might have access to guards or an army or a whole country of protectors. It doesn’t matter-the most powerful man and the weakest of children will die if you put a bullet in their head or a dagger in their heart, and once that point is reached…you can’t escape that. And the tools are accessible-it isn’t hard if you have access to a good home supply store and a knowledge of chemistry to make a decent bomb. A decent machine shop can make a good rifle, easily-even if it’s black powder, you can rifle it and build a good firing mechanism and good-to-great bullets.
But, as we’ve seen, the world that exists here is very medieval in it’s access to violence. There is a pinnacle of access and ability of violence-the only near comparison to our world is the period of time between the fall of Rome and the development of the Welsh longbow. The ability to be capable of effective violence-the ability to make and wear armor, learn how to use a weapon, even be fed sufficiently to grow and develop a body strong enough to carry armor and weapons-is significantly different in scale. There was good, and even great infantry in Europe during the Middle Ages. But, it was ultimately the number of and the quality of knights on horseback that determined how powerful your army was. And, having that power granted you privilege (the real kind, not the stuff that Social Justice Zealots make up)-because nobody that didn’t have access to more power could stop you, not really.
But here…it takes a great deal of effort and talent to develop a dangerous level of violence. And, the very pinnacle is restricted to only seven beings. Beings that-at minimum-would require probably a saturation strike with tactical nuclear weapons to harm or kill in our world.
If the powerful cannot be made fearful of violence from even the lowest, any government that is not automatically an oligarchy of some kind is built only upon the courtesy and consent of the powerful.
And, there are amazingly few people that have anywhere with that kind of power that have true courtesy and an ability to give consent.
My new acquaintance with the rare name, I applaud your analysis, and if this were a world with metaphysics more similar to that espoused in games like the Earths call “Dungeons and Dragons,” I’d be inclined to believe you. But as a minor angel with a longer-than-mortal Iteration-span, I do have two minor points to quibble. One, the Narrative Zoss has placed is that one shall reach heaven *through* violence. That is, in the first point means cooperation and dialogue can bring even Tyrants low, though our Godslayers are individually much weaker, and in the second, that astute followers of this Narrative have noticed, being that it’s neither about how thoroughly you own your court (Incubus, Mottom, with Mammon being an exception specifically because his court genuinely cares for him, and he allows them the agency to do so effectively. He asks much less of his faction than any of the other Seven. ) nor how much raw power you have (Jagganoth, Solomon David). Rather, following Zoss’s example, ROYALTY ties both strength of conviction, and adaptability, into strength of character, and rewards *that* with power. Examples: Our Conquering King, Enlightener of Angels, broke into Heaven by cleverness, finding the point where the Arts and the Sciences meet. Meti, who is the true owner of Incubus’s Key, and obtained it by wisdom, self-reflection, and the will to put that into action. Or Solomon David, humbled by an 82nd-iteration angel who by all rights shouldn’t have been able to move in his stopped time, applied the same conviction to live as her true self into teaching the lessons she had learned.
In short, the first point is thus: just because the secrets to both Power and Royalty are more easily kept in this world, does not change the fact that True ROYALTY can bring either, and is only deceptively difficult to learn, and not truly gatekept.
My second point is much simpler to explain. I do not know of any Social Justice Zealots, but privilege is tangible, and explained easily in concrete terms. Privilege does not mean that your life is automatically easy. It merely means that a given factor beyond your control is not actively making it harder. Our sister White Chain is privileged in one way by having the innate power and knowledge of angels. However, her brother Vigilant Gaze has a privilege that she does not in his being a brother, and not facing the ridicule and abuses that she does for “clinging to insipid gender”
I hope I have explained, and more strongly hope that those arguin in bad faith do not waste my time like our reprobate Bob has committed himself to doing.
Thank you, angel.
With respect, your summation of Feudal Military Aristocracy is more ‘romantic’ than ‘accurate’
The military value of a Feudal Knight isn’t that he is a dude in armor on a horse. That’s incidental. That’s a guy on a horse.
The value of the knight is the food his land produces, the tithes it generates for the overlord, the hopefully-stable-border it generates, and the ranks of Poor Fucking Infantry that he can levy when called.
Spoken like what I would expect a stereotypical American to speak, White Chain.
I think that going to be a big NO.
>We see it now in America, as the relentlessly oppressed raise their voices against the central culture that has embraced the pain of the downtrodden for the enrichment of those deemed righteous. Once their cries turn public opinion to their cause, and cultural norms shift to their acceptance, these same groups will in turn do to other’s as was done to them as they gain greater access to government
Yo Abbadon, are we really going to let “reverse racism and white slavery are America’s future thanks to the tyranny of BLM” talk in the comments? This seems a little bit openly white nationalist/fascist for this space, I have to say.
Maybe I’m being naive and/or uninformed from a European POV, but couldn’t this paragraph also mean that BLM is protesting against the overarching capitalist culture where the white rich people deserve to be at the top for their perceived success at life?
Yeah sure, but the paranoia that black and other marginalized people will take revenge once they get more representation in government is some racist, race war-baiting nonsense. If you’re from the EU it’s similar to xenophobic “the immigrants are taking over” paranoia, but a lot nastier. It’s positioning the struggle for justice and civil rights as not just pointless, but dangerous, because of a theoretical cycle of exploitation that shouldn’t be allowed to progress because it’s only going to lead to widespread white oppression. Google any relevant terms and “race war” to get a glimpse of this kind of thinking, it’s ugly stuff.
….? The guy is talking about the hypocrisy of -any- ideologically driven stance and how it creates a cycle of violence/revenge.
No idea how you projected white nationalism/fascism onto that?
Reminds me of an old saying about assumptions.
Indeed, sealioning stranger. Such as the assumption of false equivalency between BLM and the Klan.
Man, one thing that reading the comments has taught me.
Nerds *really* fucking hate democracy, holy shit.
I mean, if you can explain how this is supposed to work, then go ahead.
But as far as I can see, the only thing the future has in store for the people of the (former) Celestial Empire is pain. Solomon was ultimately the only thing preventing it from being ass-raped by all the other demiurges. He leaves, government breaks apart, anarchy starts, the people themselves start murdering each other, the demiurges (or really any sufficiently powerful entity) show up and then once again the people are under a dictatorship, except this time its even more oppressive than Solomon’s Big Brother state.
There is literally no hope for democracy in a world where a single person with just the right genes or talents can succesfully become more powerful than a billion people put together. It won’t last a month.
Hmmm, glancing through the comments, some people seem to think this will be the doom of the empire…
But as White Chain and Solomon both know, it’s already doomed: when Solomon inevitably dies or is defeated, then everything collapses into chaos. However, if he hands over the reigns to the people in a transition of power, staying on at first to act as a guide, then the empire has a chance of making itself into something that will survive.
It will change (perhaps to a point that it will be almost unrecognisable), but it will not be annihilated.
Alison is an in-comic representation of this agency-growth-change cycle. Solomon’s rigidity is a representation of the the law set in stone and unchanging, like the order of angels, which is equally doomed unless they try to change.
That’s been an overarching theme of the whole comic: nothing can stay the same and survive. People with no agency will crumble. Growth can be painful, but is necessary for change and agency. This is an ongoing process.
Better question. Why would the people of the Celestial Empire even want to be united? There are thousands of different worlds with vastly different cultures inside the empire, and as far I can understand, literally the only thing keeping them together is Solomon. Wouldn’t it make sense for all the different cultures to create their own nations instead of uniting into some kind of multiversal “Celestial Republic” where no one ever gets anything done because their cultures clash so much?
It is like when Austria-Hungary broke apart. The peoples of that Empire stuck together because the Habsburgs were their “rightful” rulers, at least in the eyes of a not-insignificant portion of the people, but once the Habsburgs were gone and democracy came rushing in, all the different ethnicities of that empire simply formed their own individual nations, instead of sticking together. Isn’t this the more likely result?
They are already united. Why would they want to be separate? This isnt like Nadia’s worlds left to rot. His people have lived under a single unified bureaucracy and culture for thousands of years. Really the only thing he does is protect them from other demiurges. His vast bureaucratic complex manages everything else.
I love democracy, but hate the pain and conflict involved in getting there. I seek a less-tragic path to democracy. I suspect that many feel the same way. Please don’t misrepresent us as monarchists.
I do not think you are, upon reflection. And i apologize for ridiculing you as such. However, many of these people may deny being named such, but they have such an irrational hatred of Solomon heeding White Chain’s request that they fail to think about how simple it could be to solve the problems that might result from Solomon’s abdication (we call that misogyny).
And the rest are deliberately misrepresenting both real-world politics and the nature of what’s going on in the Wheel in an attempt to justify Solomon’s rule, all but call White Chain a stupid bitch, etc etc. while actively using fascist dogwhistles and concepts.
Again, you are so far the exception. And the only exception.
It’s more that the universe we happen to be talking about is a place where ‘democracy’ is very likely to result in disaster. People seem to think the only danger is the Seven, but we’ve seen that even heaven is rotten to the core. There can be no true civilisation in a world as corrupt as this.
How many people are going to die just so White Chain can feel good about herself. I hope this blows up in her face
Wow, you must be new to the comic. Coming with the recent raid I see?
The point of this entire arc is quintessentially contained within the latest parable of Intra. The Universal War was coming either way, the balance of power between the demiurges couldn’t last forever, not when Jagganoth grows stronger while Mottom, Jadis and Mammon both wane. Sometimes, violence against injustice and tyranny is the best choice and the best outcome.
White Chain has defeated and humbled Solomon. It’s up to him to not be a monster now, to prove he was worthy of what he claimed. If he is truly the enlightened, wise and kindly ruler he claims to be, he’ll protect his people even without having power over them, out of a sense of duty, and he’ll prove that the people didn’t need his rule, only the aid of his martial arts. If he is a monster through and through in the end and refuses to protect the people he claims his, White Chain will be proven fully in the right to depose him, since he was never a dutiful ruler – merely a self-indulgent tyrant exploiting the vast majority of his demense and ruling with a horrible, suffocating iron fist just to build a shiny marble city on a hill that couldn’t last, and which he didn’t even care to defend like the spineless coward he is.
I like this one, although it could be construed as a Dr Manhattan’s Threat too… Is the Celestial People truly free if there is an unstoppable killing machine keeping watch over them?
This page is everything. White Chain is grace and dignity. I hope Solomon hears her.
I am just a LITTLE WORRIED that Mister Purple here will take the same path as Vladok and refuse to honor the terms of the deal.
Life in general, and history in particular, is a study in missed opportunity.
Imagine if Solomon had spent the last thousand years of his, yes, stable and generally prosperous reign actually encouraging his subjects to better themselves, to grow out of his protection, to leave the nest.
As opposed to literally culling the audacious and unruly every three years in a bloody public spectacle to his own ego, each round of slaughter “justified” more greatly by the previous. The same old MISTAKES, endless and needless, nipping at the heels of the Conquering King whom could have told you straight-well the inevitable and bloody shortcomings of Individual Supreme Authority.
That’s why you still have stone-age engineering techniques Solomon. It’s why your people were GODS-DAMNED-THRILLED when you got punched in the face.
It’s time to make new mistakes.
You. I like you. You’re able to admit that the Celestial Empire has been prosperous in certain ways without trying to pretend it excuses the empire’s calcification, and aren’t afraid to point out that Solomon the God Emperor has failed to do either God or Emperor things outside of nannying his biological sons and hosting the arena. Nor are you yammering about the encroachment of the other Demiurges as if Solomon hasn’t handled that the same way Lord Cheeto of the Russian-backed White House handles Corona: completely failing to acknowledge it outside of his own lawn, and forcing the people to improvise, with mixed results.
Also, I posit a new form of swearing for these comments, considering the failed state (and literal failed states “run” by multiple members of the Seven) of the Demiurges: replacing Gods-damned with Gods-be-damned. Have a great day!
>That’s why you still have stone-age engineering techniques Solomon
I’m really curious about this. The page with the soldiers bleeding to raise that stone, Pharaonic style, seems like one of the more obvious ways Solomon’s empire is an artificial society. Other worlds have, you know, forklifts, magic or otherwise, they have power tools, they don’t have their construction workers breaking their bodies like this with only the intervention of a kindly God-Emperor to spare them. (I wonder about those stone age engineering techniques– are Empire citizens allowed to visit other worlds? Do they know how much they’re being held back? Might have something to do with why they were so thrilled to see him get hit) It’s completely unnecessary and seems like it comes from the same place of controlling infantilization+ nostalgia that the rest of Solomon’s rule does, and that place has its root in a whole lot of unresolved trauma, because it looks like the level of technology Rayuba had before it was invaded and destroyed. It’s not just Solomon’s citizens who haven’t been allowed to grow and move on. The entire empire is set up in a way that keeps them from bettering themselves and keeps Solomon in a state of constant mourning for his first family and first planet, he’s keeping himself and his entire empire crystallized at his point of deepest trauma. He’s living in a giant mausoleum to his family and culture, refusing to let go, refusing to let his culture develop naturally, refusing to sire daughters because they also would grow past the daughters he lost, raising generation after generation of sons in a way that guarantees they’ll disappoint him so he has an excuse to stay in charge. He’s a tyrant but there’s some solid grief—> control adult child of alcoholics/trauma psychology going on with the way he’s being written. I keep pushing for him to recognize White Chain as a surrogate daughter because his story is genuinely tragic and I want to see the narrative catharsis of Solomon finally reaching the acceptance stage of grief and then moving past it. Because right now he’s become more like the original Ki Rata monks than he probably wants to think about. The democratization of power is what Solomon wanted when he came to them and begged them to teach him– he wanted revenge for his family but the invasion wasn’t complete, and he was trying to gain the skills to fight it. I don’t think Solomon is exactly Yem Yeddo here– he’s an incomplete Intra, one who stayed behind to protect the people, instead of teaching them. I sincerely hope White Chain gets through to him.
>Because right now he’s become more like the original Ki Rata monks than he probably wants to think about
Well observed! I have thought much the same. Though their path was rigid pacifism and his has been vastly-bellicose: Solomon has been just another old man, of vast power, sitting on his stone.
And just as the Ki Rata monks only *actually used* Ki Rata to annihilate anyone whom learned the secrets outside of their order? Solomon has thus far used his great power for little more than justifying and continuing his reign. Hells, he has even been a deal less engaged than those monks perched on their rocks; they might have had worrisome bad judgement in taking on students… but They Were Still Taking On Students
Funny how now that White Chain is a flesh and blood woman, half the comments are either about her breasts or how she’s doing everything wrong. Gee where have I seen that before.
To be honest, that’s not a “the readerbase is misogynist trash and always has been” thing, that’s a “Bob whined to one of the ‘chans and or Reddit to flood the comments” thing. Note how many seem to be arguing in bad faith, and how even the monarchists who try to seem as if arguing in good faith don’t seemnto have actually read that much of the comic. 1000 Mosquitoes is a good example of a bad offender. Where have you seen their name before the last three updates? Don’t think you have. Also, I’ll admit, as a transfeminine person myself, seeing White Chain able to finally revel in such a form as she has now is like catnip. I am willing to bet that a lot of the more good-natured jokes about “Suns out tits out” or “free the tiddy!” Are by trans people.
Although, I think my favorite comment on the subject was one person’s analysis that her bare-chested pronouncements of ROYALTY thing she’s doing here is specifically to mirror Salami the Don’s favored use of that affect.
Oh that’s a good point about Bob. If it looks like a bunch of GGers, sounds like a bunch of GGers, and smells like a bunch of GGers… 🙁
Re responses from trans people, yeah IDK, I’m also transfeminine; YMMV I guess, like with all things trans. This arc really has been something though, I’m like… super glad and honestly kind of grateful to see Abaddon giving White Chain this. Especially since experience has taught me to expect last-minute betrayal from cisgender authors.
I’m fully confident this is a raid. Lots of ostensibly bad faith posters who spam responses and posts. Scrolling down, you see a lot of their names repeat. It’s likely a small handful of awful misanthropic people posting from a few aliases each just to shit up the space with their reactionary bullshit, standard chan petty internet war tactics.
Digging the Lancer themed name btw.
I’d be slightly careful about using how often someone appeared in recent updates to tell if they’ve been following the comic for long. For example, I only post fairly sporadically.
That said, I suspect your overall analysis is correct. The … backlash against White Chains boon struck me as weird for this comment section, both because it seems to be missing most of the point of this comic (and the politics we’ve seen so far, for that matter), and because it was surprisingly loud and consistent.
Hopefully, there’s a for Abbadon to clean things up, because I rather liked the odd-ball mix of RP and insightful analysis that normally makes up the comments. This new invasion is just unpleasant.
Hmm, not sure how filling this request would work in practice. As WC said, this peace is an illusion held up by him and will shatter the second he passes on from the world.
He can’t exactly just abdicate and hand the empire over to “the people”. Setting his worlds up to be able to grow beyond him takes time. There needs to be some from of government and you can’t just flick a switch on a dictatorship. It’s not like they have systems in place for a democracy and people need to learn what to do with one.
I’m… a little confused as to where this is coming from. I get that the aesop here is “authoritarianism bad”, but that kind of hasn’t been *shown* by the story. Unless I missed something, we haven’t really seen much in the way of Solomon being a tyrant, and he seems to be well-loved by the people (who live considerably better than the rest of Throne). We haven’t really *seen* his failings- we’re just supposed to, like, assume they exist? Because that’s sort of intrinsic to dictatorships? I guess White Chain’s been around a while and would know, but I think the work to show us why we’re supposed to hate the guy has… sorta been skipped.
Maybe, like, a couple extra pages when Solomon is walking through the city with Zaid would do some work there? They happen across some kind of bad thing happening as a result of his laws, and Solomon gives a defense of it but it’s obviously pretty brutal and reveals an underlying tension in Celestial Empire society? Something like that to counteract what the rest of the book is doing- intentionally or no- to present Solomon as *justified*.
Without the buildup, this scene kinda comes off as… “yay, the-abstract-concept-of-antiauthoritarianism”? Cheering for the home team, rather than making a point- in a way that jars with everything everyone’s been doing or talking about for the last hundred-some pages. (Plus it’s weird that every single character on Team WC here is posing stylishly behind her, as if what WC is saying isn’t remotely surprising. You’d think the devils, at least, would be a little taken aback by her forgoing a selfish wish in favor of a vague demand for social reform that doesn’t benefit them in any way.)
On his field trip with Zaid what we saw was his people running themselves bloody trying to fulfill his wishes and Solomon stopped them, gave them the day off, and then finished it for them. This could have been staged and he was just flexing in front of Zaid to give an impression of his benevolence, or it could be illustrating that his cult of personality has grown beyond his personal wishes and has his people act in ways ‘for the empire!’ that he personally wouldn’t condone if he was witnessing it.
The way the crowd is shown jeering and grotesque might confirm this as well, the Mass is not a bunch of noble citizens that he had tried to inspire. Solomon is perhaps disappointed in them, and himself for not creating a nation that matched his vision.
While I too find it kind of eye-rolling how White Chain seems to hand wave the results of her decision, ultimately the Empire’s bureaucracy runs all these planets already. I doubt Solomon coordinates all the paperwork and logistics, that can stay in place. He can stay on as guardian of the Republic, even be head of the military or whatever. That though is sort of an unfair demand of his time and would be putting him from one prison to another, still delaying his pursuit of royalty. If he is as noble as he likes to think though, perhaps he’d be willing to take up that burden without the station to go with it.
A poster above pointed out though how likely it is that each planet will choose to go its own way, they a patchwork of very different cultures with only Solomon’s irresistible power to hold them together. Self-determination sounds fine, though in this universe that will likely to lead to them getting gobbled up one by one by the other demiurges. Unless they’re only accessible with Solomon’s key, in which case he could just cut the Celestial Empire off from the rest of the universe and they can mind their own business as long as Allison doesn’t open them again?
I’d believe that anyone who can “ride the lightning” could go wherever they please, and bring with them things at least as big as Nadia’s flying palace. Opening the proper gates to the King’s Road probably needs that’s world’s key, though.
Though I think the point might be that there are more stones than demiurges.
Mottom moves her palace through the gates, as we saw in book 2, so the matter of what a demiurge can transport is not quite so clear.
BTW, the book-2 pages suggest to me that Allison’s Earth was next on Mottom’s list for harvesting after Mykos, and that was why so many devils had gathered by the Earth-gate waiting for access. Diverting Mottom into a war with Mammon may have saved Earth from despoilment. It’s another example of how unwise action *by a favoured, fated person in a multiverse of miracles* can save worlds rather than doom them.
Hmm…I’d like to see this granted. I mean…this is still Salami Dave, the smug, smirking jackass. He’s going to find a way to give them exactly what they want in a way that makes them feel terrible, while he gets the last laugh.
At least, this is what I’d really like to see.
And then Solomon invites the team to discuss such subjects as sociocracy, the viable system model, methods of voting and polling, network theory, prediction markets, the importance of public outreach in the sciences, the social dynamics of cults and how to thwart them, and other such matters as are instrumental to the maintenance of democracy.
Tits: Out
Words: Hardline
Team: Jojo pose
titties: out
monarchy: abolished
man’s whole career: ruined
Or a return to his original career of seeking Royalty before he ended up as royalty.
“Your struggle must be a terrible fire, which only grows as you pass it to others”. And now everybody’s got a little flame hovering above their heads. Nice.
Still worried about the green tint of Nyave’s flame, though.
I got that reference
The parable of Intra and the stone is frankly my favorite.
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