Your words this day are particularly poignant. I thank you for the red art of lying words on the black background of the void on our behalf. May your days be long and your temperature never rise above melting point.
Preem Hayes.
Did you miss the transgender angel and Ciocie Cioelle literally writing self-insert fanfiction about her banging the Rising King.
We have always been here.
It’s probably safe to say that Allison is not exclusively lesbian, but rather bisexual. She was in a relationship with a guy, is now in a relationship with a presumably female demon.
Depending on demon morphology, she may have jumped into pansexual (or some theoretical term) territory.
Could be, and wouldn’t mind (heck, I’m Bi), but the vibe I got at the start, from her with the guy, was very “reluctant” tbh. Lotta Lesbians start off dating men, so keep your mind open to that too imo.
I thought it had been established already that Alison was never super into Zaid? Like, she was really only bedding him because she thought she needed to Lose Her Virginity; and now she wants to rescue him because it’s the right thing to do, but not because she’s crazy about him or anything.
My read is that but I could be wrong, and it could just be “He’s hot, but I don’t want sex w/ him”, which could in turn be demi tendencies of “I don’t want to fuck people I don’t actually like as people”
I would like a plum please. Please, ever since I announced that I was an elevator thief on public channels nobody has been bringing their groceries into my elevator. If only I could conjure plums out of thin air like Allison just did! I’m already going mad from the red blood putrefying my noble veins and suffering rotating palace withdrawal, starvation is the last thing I need!
Contemplate your suffering, and how it relates to the suffering you doubtlessly inflicted upon the less-fortunate in your role as Grand Dragon banker. Surely you see the connection?
Embrace your hunger, for it is true power. Unlike wealth, which can always be taken from you. Even Mammon could not stop the theft of his personal possessions.
Oh, and I hear there’s a traveling magician and sorcerer in town who leaves the streets littered with random fruits as a practical joke. Supposedly they taste quite good despite their throwaway nature. I’d look into it.
The Black Flame’s nature is fertility and hunger. Just a trifle less… limited in those aspects than ourselves. But we gave them faces, and we gave them names, and we have never required more than that to feel the embers of YIS rise within us.
I gotta say, as a gay person, I’m a tad skeeved that a male artist is depicting a lesbian relationship in this way, especially because the relationship is kinda starting off sexual and in a weirdly stilted and kinda porn dialoguey way? I mean sure I’ve said “wanna have sex?” as a way of starting out relationships, but I’m a real gay trans person, not a character controlled by a dude. And I’m not trying to accuse Abbadon of fetishizing, but I think he, and the readership should recognize that it kinda comes across that way to some real people who are a part of the group being depicted. I’m not a troll or trying to stir shit up, but I think this is something that should be addressed. I really like this comic and I’d hate so it descend into fetishizing fan service.
I agree, I think so far it’s pretty okay, but it’s a hard line to walk for him. As another gay trans person (though I obviously don’t represent all of us) I think it’s not gone too far as of yet. I think that if it doesn’t go to in depth with it, and there aren’t a lot of lingering panels of them making out or whatever, it will probably not end too badly.
So far Abbadon has been really good about gender, so I have pretty good trust that he won’t fetishize it. I personally hope for lots of wholesome gayness, since that’s a lot safer, and easier to make good, non-fetishy representation with.
I didn’t really get porn dialogue vibes so much as just Cio being an unsubtle demon, but I can definitely see how it could come across that way. It feels like it’s not so much a start of the relationship, but just that this is how they interact in their relationship.
THANK you. I was worried with the obvious troll comment above and the frankly tiring conversation I had on the last page that it would be impossible to make it clear that a man writing this relationship is going to be uncomfortable. And, well, it is! I wish Abaddon had put more thought into that, and he clearly is not. Even the edits he has made to previous distasteful pages don’t seem to have been made in good faith.
A lot of people in the comments assuming it’s the feminine aspects of Cio that are what attract Allison. It can’t be the demonic traits, because gods forbid Allison have a streak of xenophilia to her instead. Nope, it’s definitely the fact that Allison stated that she was attracted to Cio as a woman — oh wait, where was that again?
I doubt you get this riled up about a woman writing a story with a male MC or a LGBT+ person writing about a straight relationship. If you are going to act like this then how will the LGBT+ community and their media be normalized in society? Why treat them like they are off limits?
Men don’t have to write something for it to be normalized. Men don’t have to be ALLOWED or ENCOURAGED to write lesbians for them to be normalized. We don’t have to be written by men to be normalized. Stop. Just, stop.
I mean… yeah, they do. Not because LGBT+ relationships need the straight male stamp of approval, but because that’s what “normalization” means. If LGBT+ relationships have this special status where straight menβjust straight menβaren’t encouraged or even allowed to right them, that’s not normalized.
It’s implied this isn’t their first rodeo, to be fair. And yet, I’ve started out relationships this way. There’s a strong bias among those who deem these interactions improbable.
Would you read this interaction as weird if it was a straight couple tho? I say this, also as a queer person, and I do not feel anything wrong with how Cio and Allison have been written so far.
Maybe that specific line would feel fetishy and out of the blue without the whole context of… you know.. Allison scheduling to lose her virginity.
hey, i just started reading this in 2024 and i don’t know if they’ve gone back to make this more obvious but cio has very clearly had a thing for her since the very first time they met, it wasn’t exactly subtle either with her constantly being like “UGH BOYFRIEND?” and “maybe she dates a girl in my version of the story”
i really like this outcome and it feels more like blake and yang dating in rwby (also very obvious and not subtle) than something out of the blue because horny author.
Waitaminute. If a newbie like Allison can make a fruit, why can’t the B/W/L/itch Queen do it too so she could un-age forever without all the maiden sacrifices? And why is said queen ticked off so much? Was she in love with the husband-tree?
Anyhow, that’s enough of old topics. Back to all your really silly fanboi squabbling over a COMIC…
Establishing that she only felt like she HAD to to have a complete life, and that she was very uncomfortable with Zaid. While it’s great to also establish that she clearly was not attracted to men, it’s still very possible to have a critique based on this comic being written by a man.
I gotta disagree with this reasoning: it’s possible to be concerned that the writer may not put in the work required to faithfully depict a queer female relationship, because they are a straight male. And you can critique the substance of what he writes and depicts, but you cannot have a critique *based* upon his gender.
Infer what you like about how and why an artist fails or succeeds, but it should be based on their work: this panel either works because it’s authentic or fails because it’s inauthentic. That is what you critique.
If you feel uncomfortable about any man writing a queer female dynamic, then I get that; and it is, of course, entirely your prerogative. But that is not criticism, constructive or otherwise.
Personally, I’m always cautious, but I’ve come across several male writers who are very good at writing queer women. And I quite like the fact that Cio (in a nice bit of growth) is asking for Alison’s enthusiastic consent here; and Alison being awkward about expressing that reads as part of her character arc to me.
If you feel it is not criticism, then that is your opinion. I am not concerned, and I don’t really care if you’ve previously seen male authors who haven’t jumped the gun on fetishism.
A Critique is advice on how someone can do better, change something or otherwise improve the quality of their work. One cannot stop being a straight man to improve the quality of their work. This is gonna sound crazy, but you actually can’t judge people based off of immutable qualities of their person.
Like, there’s nothing wrong with worrying that this is going to be fetish fuel because, honestly, with the dynamic that’s been hinted at that’s entirely possible. But given that there’s been, thus far, exactly zero sex and like two kisses between them I’m not sure if I’d really call this fetishization. I feel like fetishization really does require like…actual sexualized content. So I can wait to see what happens next before I decide if this particular fwb situation between two women makes me uncomfortable or not based on the content that I am given, rather than screaming that an author who happens to be a dude has had the audacity to include people like me in his work. Tbh the comic has seemed, to me anyways, to put romantic ships and stuff on the backburner in favor of plot so unless the next five pages are a straight up sex scene I think I can deal with Alison having a potentially sexual relationship that’s explicitly acknowledged while she goes and resolves the plot. It seems more like a seasoning than a part of the meal, and I’m fine with that.
Turns out that normalizing the presence of queer people in general might involve non-queer persons talking about queer stuff or writing about imaginary queer people.
Please read the last book and a half and PLEASE take into account that, for the millionth time, Abaddon has ALREADY had to edit previous pages for being too gratuitously sexual in their depictions of women. I am not sure how many times I have had to state that he has already crossed the line on this subject. I know it is unlikely you have read my previous comments on the issue but…my goodness. It is exhausting having to repeat myself on something that should be plainly visible, honestly.
Again, it is a critique. Just because you don’t think it is, does not concern me. I will continue to give it.
OK, genuine question here, has Abbadon said that explicitly anywhere, and any pages where you can show us? I do know that he edits pages to fix things like colour and anatomy (and he’s admitted that anatomy isn’t his strong suit), but other than the 000001 page (which many people took as absurd more than titillating) I don’t recall any other page that would be considered sexualized or fetishistic.
I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ve been following this comic since before Chapter 1 was finished and I’ve never seen Abbadon say anything even remotely alluding to changing pages to be less sexy. Like I admit I don’t really get into the comment section often but I do usually read the little author blurbs.
But.
“That picture of a woman is to sexy” is a thing that can be fixed. The author can take that feedback, weigh in whether the aspect that you’re commenting on was intentional or not, and potentially change it. That is an actual critique.
When your entire critique is “You’re writing about lesbians when you’re a straight dude” It’s not a crique anymore. He can’t change anything to fix that. That’s not even a complaint about the actual content.
Like, I get it. I really do. As a queer woman myself I understand why this “straight dude writes about lesbians with benefits” thing is uncomfortable. But I’m not going to start decrying it until he starts cluttering his plot with gratuitous sex scenes. There have been titillating images throughout this comic -mostly of women, yes- but everything has been intentionally used to create a particular aesthetic atmosphere and tell a story. I never felt like I was shown Allison’s tits just to see her tits so I’m sorry but I don’t really see the fetishization that you do. Nudity =/= Sexualization. The most sexualized thing I’ve ever seen here is the BDSM nun and even then like, I’m actually into bondage and that was like to opposite of sexy to me.
If this aesthetic atmosphere is not for you, fair enough. If the author being a straight dude is enough to make you stop reading a thing you are entitled to your opinion.
But don’t pretend that “Ur a straight dude” is an actual, valid critique because it’s not. If your “critique” isn’t constructive in some way it’s just being a dick.
“When your entire critique is βYouβre writing about lesbians when youβre a straight dudeβ Itβs not a crique anymore. He canβt change anything to fix that.”
He can stop writing it. He could have not started to. He could have considered the implications of him writing two women attracted to each other as a man. He could have considered the implications of him having a time skip and then writing them raunchy while we miss any and all actual relationship build-up beyond the “I don’t date” and “The Kiss” pages.
Please don’t try to talk down to me just because you are also a woman who experiences same-sex attraction. Your standards may be lower. That isn’t my problem. You may not care about a straight man raunching up lesbians. That isn’t my problem. You may not like my critique. That is not my problem.
“but everything has been intentionally used to create a particular aesthetic atmosphere and tell a story”
I would like to know how any single author will create a story with diverse people and relationships if the author is restricted by their gender and sexuality.
Should men only write male characters? Should lesbian woman do not write male heterosexual characters? Should every story be written by a team comprised of members of every gender and sexuality depicted in the work? (and in the correct combination?)
Also, is the author obligated to give a relationship development before the characters have sex? There is people all over the spectrum that have sex without having a relationship why should he be obligated to have them build a relationship and show all of this building process to unlock your permission to show sexy times? And we do not even know if he will show anything explicit, there is a big possibility that he will not.
You opinion (which you insist that is a critique) is laughable. You can have it. You can shout it the loudest you can and spam it endlessly. It will not matter, what you ask is that the author do not create unless it meets your discriminatory and narrow standards. This will not do.
Yeah see, “he should stop writing” is not a constructive critique. If “he should stop writing” is how you feel then you are not obligated to return and keep reading nor is it really necessary to walk up to the author and basically tell them to shove it. You are criticizing but not all criticism is a critique. Sometimes you just have an opinion and choose to be a dick about it.
Furthermore I want media w wlw in it to be normalized to the point that I have the luxury of picking and choosing what I want to read to see myself reflected in it. Part of that fantasy becoming reality is, yes, writing about LGBT folks being a thing done by straight ppl. They can’t learn how to do that if they never get a chance to try. So I want straight dudes to write about lesbians they spent like 400 pages developing as ppl and watching them have organic interactions w each other that had nothing to do w sex.
I think you’ll find few people are inclined to respect your unconventional definition of the word “criticism”. In any case, it seems to be entirely about the author, and whether or not they have the right to their own work, rather than the work itself.
You do not have the authority to speak for anyone but yourself, and yet carry on as if anyone who disagrees with you is simply wrong and uneducated. You suggest people seek out women’s perspectives on the topic, while ignoring those of the women speaking right here. You’re not engaging in good faith, or even in the same language.
im so glad your solution to this “problem” is to stop having WLW representation in this story. that’s exactly what i want as a certified gay, LESS representation for me when I consume media! Wowzers!
I want queer rep in my stories. Of course this means letting straight people write them (not that we know Abaddon is straight, but he is also a real person so I’m not gonna theorize because that shits disrespectful) because /theres more of them than there are of us/, statistically I’ll get more good things to read if straight people rep us too. I see nothing wrong with anything Abaddon wrote or drew in the story so far. I’m actually amazed he’s not a wlw, the everything is THAT good!
If seeing organic wlw relationships bothers you that much because the author is not a wlw, just stop reading instead of demanding the representation be LESS inclusive. :/
(Also cio going I suppose I’ll ravish thee is fucking hilarious, not tittilating. Ravish. My god.)
I think it’s one thing to make a fruit, another to make a fruit that grants youth and life. Mottom’s fruits came from the combination of the nature of the person who became the tree (previously a powerful demiurge), plus the blood of the people the tree craved. Maybe there is another way (Solomon David hasn’t outwardly aged) but Mottom doesn’t seem to be aware of it. She hated her husband-tree but kept feeding it because she was scared to lose her power. When we last saw her, she had accepted that her empire will probably be over soon, leading to her to basically say “fuck it all” and and go into a reckless battle.
Maybe Allison will create something that heals or regenerates herself too, but this plum seems to be just the beginning for her.
Both Solomon David and Maya prevent aging with (no joke) “breathing exercises”. I feel like Abbadon is leading us on with that excuse, though, and there’ll be some reveal later.
I am glad I am not the only reader uncomfortable with this being written by a man (excluding the obvious troll comment and the horrible responses to it thus far). Hopefully it won’t get much worse than this, but of course I also said that when Abaddon was making sure Cio’s breasts were in every panel in the previous book, thinking it could not get worse when of course we were greeted with that awful 00001 splash page.
Well. Fingers crossed. I really do enjoy this comic and I would hate to see it degrade in the name of the male gaze, especially considering the overarching theme of dismantling misogyny.
The comment was rightfully shot down because it was a blatant attempt at concern trolling. And that you and those other commentators aren’t bringing any meaningful points except that Abbadon is a guy and thus every shot of the girls must be inherently sexualized and bad in some manner brings me to the conclusion that you and your ilk are also concern trolls.
Regardless, at least complete reading a comment before you respond. You can’t say there’s “no meaningful points” when there clearly are several, unless you are just willfully ignoring them.
And I find your concerns are at best specious and overly biased. From here it sounds more that you’re angry that there are two lesbian characters in a relationship being open about their sexuality just because they’re written by a man.
I think you have to take into account that a lot of the people who are skeeved out by this depiction are members of the group being depicted. Like, putting our reasons aside, if real lesbians don’t like a dude’s portrayal of lesbians then maybe theres an issue with the portrayal. And like, the reason we have an issue with a straight dude depicting us is because usually when they do they fetishize us. our judgment is based on experience.
And I’ve been given no real reason so far to think Abbadon is doing that now. And just so you know I’m a member of such groups as well, and so far, the only other queer people I’ve seen that took any issue are in this comment section.
While I agree that if there’s lesbians being upset over how they are depicted then they should be taken into consideration, I am also left wondering; why on Earth would you prioritize them when there’s plenty of us that simply don’t give a shit or that believe that it is well written????
Different people have different sensibilities after all (not ~lower standards~ like the other asshole over here said), so why prioritize one over the other? Why do you feel your opinion is more important just because you are offended? come on.
Thanks for writing all these comments out. I was also pretty uncomfortable about the bondage nun thing (the new page is still really horny…) and Allison’s shirt getting ripped up last chapter. I also feel like the author is dismissing concerns out of hand, which is frustrating considering it sounds like a lot of the people with reservations are wlw.
I do believe this romance subplot could turn out perfectly fine. I think Abbadon’s intentions here are genuinely good and I enjoyed the way Cio and Allison’s interactions up until now have been written; I personally think this page is cute and have cautious hope. To be honest, though, ever since I read Wisp’s review I’ve taken a step back and been like ah, hm about the whole piece.
Some of the responses to your comments are super unreasonable (I think two people called you a nazi? I’m…), hope you’re doing alright.
Like I commented to another person here, yeah, there’s plenty of queer people & women who are upset over some depictions made by Abbadon. But there’s also plenty that are not or that actually like how things are being done so far. (I absolutely adored the bondage nun for example.)
You want to be heard and that is reasonable but I don’t understand why should you be given a priority????????
Also I remember Wisp literally writing in their review that they did not bother to try to understand or even read the comic properly because it was overwhelming or whatever, so idk why you’d trust their review over your own perception.
A bit off topic for this page…but has anyone commented on how *similar* Alison and Incubus are starting to look to each other…cos it just hit me, while I was looking for a picture of Cio lighting a match with her tongue >.> !
Mistress Cio might find her nails unsuitable for the task ahead.
Allison deflected a knife to the eye, I’m sure she’ll manage
It is worth noting that devils are known more for their tongues than their fingers, both in the metaphorical and literal sense.
You sure about that? They say idle hands are the devil’s workshop after all … π
Bittersweet and not the same
as fruit that holds you in the frame
but similar. What goes once came.
Your words this day are particularly poignant. I thank you for the red art of lying words on the black background of the void on our behalf. May your days be long and your temperature never rise above melting point.
K6BD wouldn’t be the same without the rhyming wax head. Book readers will be missing a significant portion of the experience.
print has limits
this is axiomatic
There it is. A lesbian. Now this comic is gonna get Tumblr famous and it’ll get ruined
Preem Hayes.
Did you miss the transgender angel and Ciocie Cioelle literally writing self-insert fanfiction about her banging the Rising King.
We have always been here.
It’s BEEN tumblr famous. The entire theme has been fighting against sexist norms. Sorry to break it to you.
We been knew π
It’s probably safe to say that Allison is not exclusively lesbian, but rather bisexual. She was in a relationship with a guy, is now in a relationship with a presumably female demon.
Depending on demon morphology, she may have jumped into pansexual (or some theoretical term) territory.
Could be, and wouldn’t mind (heck, I’m Bi), but the vibe I got at the start, from her with the guy, was very “reluctant” tbh. Lotta Lesbians start off dating men, so keep your mind open to that too imo.
I thought it had been established already that Alison was never super into Zaid? Like, she was really only bedding him because she thought she needed to Lose Her Virginity; and now she wants to rescue him because it’s the right thing to do, but not because she’s crazy about him or anything.
That was my read too; but there’s still some room for different interpretations I think.
My read is that but I could be wrong, and it could just be “He’s hot, but I don’t want sex w/ him”, which could in turn be demi tendencies of “I don’t want to fuck people I don’t actually like as people”
Well that UST resolved quickly.
THE LIE OF THE IRON PLUM
THEIR COMING WILL BE FOLLOWED BY ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHT BURNING STARS
That’s gonna be hell on the bedsheets!
Now just make it the youth-granting variety and Mottom will have no reason to be so hangry.
Fuck yeah, awesome. Love me some girl on girl.
Huh, I thought it was already implied that this was a thing between them. Guess I was reading into it too much.
*best* follow up to the last page, hahahahhah!
You got me. π
I would like a plum please. Please, ever since I announced that I was an elevator thief on public channels nobody has been bringing their groceries into my elevator. If only I could conjure plums out of thin air like Allison just did! I’m already going mad from the red blood putrefying my noble veins and suffering rotating palace withdrawal, starvation is the last thing I need!
Contemplate your suffering, and how it relates to the suffering you doubtlessly inflicted upon the less-fortunate in your role as Grand Dragon banker. Surely you see the connection?
Embrace your hunger, for it is true power. Unlike wealth, which can always be taken from you. Even Mammon could not stop the theft of his personal possessions.
Oh, and I hear there’s a traveling magician and sorcerer in town who leaves the streets littered with random fruits as a practical joke. Supposedly they taste quite good despite their throwaway nature. I’d look into it.
are demons precluded from love? the world is being reworked in the hands of the Rising King
The Black Flame’s nature is fertility and hunger. Just a trifle less… limited in those aspects than ourselves. But we gave them faces, and we gave them names, and we have never required more than that to feel the embers of YIS rise within us.
Cio’s had a thing for Alison from the start, if that’s what you’re asking…
The following pages will just be back and forward of fake-outs until it zooms out to Allison from Seeker of Thrones reading Cio’s book.
*joyous raptor screech*
Ah, to be young.
I am reminded of days long ago, when I had first met my life-partner.
One day, I shall return to them.
I just now realized the hair makes Cio look a lot like Shuten-Doji from Fate/Grand Order.
Fanfic writing girlfriend who makes serious offers to ravish you? That’s a pretty good catch, Allison.
THE SHIP HAS SAILED
She ate the apple of lust. or plum or whatever fruit it is.
I gotta say, as a gay person, I’m a tad skeeved that a male artist is depicting a lesbian relationship in this way, especially because the relationship is kinda starting off sexual and in a weirdly stilted and kinda porn dialoguey way? I mean sure I’ve said “wanna have sex?” as a way of starting out relationships, but I’m a real gay trans person, not a character controlled by a dude. And I’m not trying to accuse Abbadon of fetishizing, but I think he, and the readership should recognize that it kinda comes across that way to some real people who are a part of the group being depicted. I’m not a troll or trying to stir shit up, but I think this is something that should be addressed. I really like this comic and I’d hate so it descend into fetishizing fan service.
I agree, I think so far it’s pretty okay, but it’s a hard line to walk for him. As another gay trans person (though I obviously don’t represent all of us) I think it’s not gone too far as of yet. I think that if it doesn’t go to in depth with it, and there aren’t a lot of lingering panels of them making out or whatever, it will probably not end too badly.
So far Abbadon has been really good about gender, so I have pretty good trust that he won’t fetishize it. I personally hope for lots of wholesome gayness, since that’s a lot safer, and easier to make good, non-fetishy representation with.
I didn’t really get porn dialogue vibes so much as just Cio being an unsubtle demon, but I can definitely see how it could come across that way. It feels like it’s not so much a start of the relationship, but just that this is how they interact in their relationship.
THANK you. I was worried with the obvious troll comment above and the frankly tiring conversation I had on the last page that it would be impossible to make it clear that a man writing this relationship is going to be uncomfortable. And, well, it is! I wish Abaddon had put more thought into that, and he clearly is not. Even the edits he has made to previous distasteful pages don’t seem to have been made in good faith.
Its almost like its weird for people to have a “too sexy” complaint in a comic featuring things like torture, brutal murder and genocides. Oh well.
A lot of people in the comments assuming it’s the feminine aspects of Cio that are what attract Allison. It can’t be the demonic traits, because gods forbid Allison have a streak of xenophilia to her instead. Nope, it’s definitely the fact that Allison stated that she was attracted to Cio as a woman — oh wait, where was that again?
I doubt you get this riled up about a woman writing a story with a male MC or a LGBT+ person writing about a straight relationship. If you are going to act like this then how will the LGBT+ community and their media be normalized in society? Why treat them like they are off limits?
Men don’t have to write something for it to be normalized. Men don’t have to be ALLOWED or ENCOURAGED to write lesbians for them to be normalized. We don’t have to be written by men to be normalized. Stop. Just, stop.
I mean… yeah, they do. Not because LGBT+ relationships need the straight male stamp of approval, but because that’s what “normalization” means. If LGBT+ relationships have this special status where straight menβjust straight menβaren’t encouraged or even allowed to right them, that’s not normalized.
Yes it is.
It literally is not. One group of people being treated differently is the literal opposite of normalization.
Eh? This isn’t the start of the relationship. Alison asked Cio out on a date a year ago, right after they escaped from the vault.
“as a way of starting out relationships”
It’s implied this isn’t their first rodeo, to be fair. And yet, I’ve started out relationships this way. There’s a strong bias among those who deem these interactions improbable.
Would you read this interaction as weird if it was a straight couple tho? I say this, also as a queer person, and I do not feel anything wrong with how Cio and Allison have been written so far.
Maybe that specific line would feel fetishy and out of the blue without the whole context of… you know.. Allison scheduling to lose her virginity.
hey, i just started reading this in 2024 and i don’t know if they’ve gone back to make this more obvious but cio has very clearly had a thing for her since the very first time they met, it wasn’t exactly subtle either with her constantly being like “UGH BOYFRIEND?” and “maybe she dates a girl in my version of the story”
i really like this outcome and it feels more like blake and yang dating in rwby (also very obvious and not subtle) than something out of the blue because horny author.
Waitaminute. If a newbie like Allison can make a fruit, why can’t the B/W/L/itch Queen do it too so she could un-age forever without all the maiden sacrifices? And why is said queen ticked off so much? Was she in love with the husband-tree?
Anyhow, that’s enough of old topics. Back to all your really silly fanboi squabbling over a COMIC…
I suppose the whole whole de-aging effect is the harder thing to produce.
Just because you can make a plum doesn’t mean you can make a magic, immortality-granting plum.
Apparently a character just asking if she wants sex with her girlfriend is fan service now.
Did you people forget that the first page literally starts out with Allison attempting to lose her virginity with Zaid?
Establishing that she only felt like she HAD to to have a complete life, and that she was very uncomfortable with Zaid. While it’s great to also establish that she clearly was not attracted to men, it’s still very possible to have a critique based on this comic being written by a man.
I gotta disagree with this reasoning: it’s possible to be concerned that the writer may not put in the work required to faithfully depict a queer female relationship, because they are a straight male. And you can critique the substance of what he writes and depicts, but you cannot have a critique *based* upon his gender.
Infer what you like about how and why an artist fails or succeeds, but it should be based on their work: this panel either works because it’s authentic or fails because it’s inauthentic. That is what you critique.
If you feel uncomfortable about any man writing a queer female dynamic, then I get that; and it is, of course, entirely your prerogative. But that is not criticism, constructive or otherwise.
Personally, I’m always cautious, but I’ve come across several male writers who are very good at writing queer women. And I quite like the fact that Cio (in a nice bit of growth) is asking for Alison’s enthusiastic consent here; and Alison being awkward about expressing that reads as part of her character arc to me.
If you feel it is not criticism, then that is your opinion. I am not concerned, and I don’t really care if you’ve previously seen male authors who haven’t jumped the gun on fetishism.
It’s not tho. It’s not a critique.
A Critique is advice on how someone can do better, change something or otherwise improve the quality of their work. One cannot stop being a straight man to improve the quality of their work. This is gonna sound crazy, but you actually can’t judge people based off of immutable qualities of their person.
Like, there’s nothing wrong with worrying that this is going to be fetish fuel because, honestly, with the dynamic that’s been hinted at that’s entirely possible. But given that there’s been, thus far, exactly zero sex and like two kisses between them I’m not sure if I’d really call this fetishization. I feel like fetishization really does require like…actual sexualized content. So I can wait to see what happens next before I decide if this particular fwb situation between two women makes me uncomfortable or not based on the content that I am given, rather than screaming that an author who happens to be a dude has had the audacity to include people like me in his work. Tbh the comic has seemed, to me anyways, to put romantic ships and stuff on the backburner in favor of plot so unless the next five pages are a straight up sex scene I think I can deal with Alison having a potentially sexual relationship that’s explicitly acknowledged while she goes and resolves the plot. It seems more like a seasoning than a part of the meal, and I’m fine with that.
Turns out that normalizing the presence of queer people in general might involve non-queer persons talking about queer stuff or writing about imaginary queer people.
Please read the last book and a half and PLEASE take into account that, for the millionth time, Abaddon has ALREADY had to edit previous pages for being too gratuitously sexual in their depictions of women. I am not sure how many times I have had to state that he has already crossed the line on this subject. I know it is unlikely you have read my previous comments on the issue but…my goodness. It is exhausting having to repeat myself on something that should be plainly visible, honestly.
Again, it is a critique. Just because you don’t think it is, does not concern me. I will continue to give it.
OK, genuine question here, has Abbadon said that explicitly anywhere, and any pages where you can show us? I do know that he edits pages to fix things like colour and anatomy (and he’s admitted that anatomy isn’t his strong suit), but other than the 000001 page (which many people took as absurd more than titillating) I don’t recall any other page that would be considered sexualized or fetishistic.
I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ve been following this comic since before Chapter 1 was finished and I’ve never seen Abbadon say anything even remotely alluding to changing pages to be less sexy. Like I admit I don’t really get into the comment section often but I do usually read the little author blurbs.
But.
“That picture of a woman is to sexy” is a thing that can be fixed. The author can take that feedback, weigh in whether the aspect that you’re commenting on was intentional or not, and potentially change it. That is an actual critique.
When your entire critique is “You’re writing about lesbians when you’re a straight dude” It’s not a crique anymore. He can’t change anything to fix that. That’s not even a complaint about the actual content.
Like, I get it. I really do. As a queer woman myself I understand why this “straight dude writes about lesbians with benefits” thing is uncomfortable. But I’m not going to start decrying it until he starts cluttering his plot with gratuitous sex scenes. There have been titillating images throughout this comic -mostly of women, yes- but everything has been intentionally used to create a particular aesthetic atmosphere and tell a story. I never felt like I was shown Allison’s tits just to see her tits so I’m sorry but I don’t really see the fetishization that you do. Nudity =/= Sexualization. The most sexualized thing I’ve ever seen here is the BDSM nun and even then like, I’m actually into bondage and that was like to opposite of sexy to me.
If this aesthetic atmosphere is not for you, fair enough. If the author being a straight dude is enough to make you stop reading a thing you are entitled to your opinion.
But don’t pretend that “Ur a straight dude” is an actual, valid critique because it’s not. If your “critique” isn’t constructive in some way it’s just being a dick.
“When your entire critique is βYouβre writing about lesbians when youβre a straight dudeβ Itβs not a crique anymore. He canβt change anything to fix that.”
He can stop writing it. He could have not started to. He could have considered the implications of him writing two women attracted to each other as a man. He could have considered the implications of him having a time skip and then writing them raunchy while we miss any and all actual relationship build-up beyond the “I don’t date” and “The Kiss” pages.
Please don’t try to talk down to me just because you are also a woman who experiences same-sex attraction. Your standards may be lower. That isn’t my problem. You may not care about a straight man raunching up lesbians. That isn’t my problem. You may not like my critique. That is not my problem.
“but everything has been intentionally used to create a particular aesthetic atmosphere and tell a story”
Lol. Just…stop.
I would like to know how any single author will create a story with diverse people and relationships if the author is restricted by their gender and sexuality.
Should men only write male characters? Should lesbian woman do not write male heterosexual characters? Should every story be written by a team comprised of members of every gender and sexuality depicted in the work? (and in the correct combination?)
Also, is the author obligated to give a relationship development before the characters have sex? There is people all over the spectrum that have sex without having a relationship why should he be obligated to have them build a relationship and show all of this building process to unlock your permission to show sexy times? And we do not even know if he will show anything explicit, there is a big possibility that he will not.
You opinion (which you insist that is a critique) is laughable. You can have it. You can shout it the loudest you can and spam it endlessly. It will not matter, what you ask is that the author do not create unless it meets your discriminatory and narrow standards. This will not do.
It will have to do for now.
Yeah see, “he should stop writing” is not a constructive critique. If “he should stop writing” is how you feel then you are not obligated to return and keep reading nor is it really necessary to walk up to the author and basically tell them to shove it. You are criticizing but not all criticism is a critique. Sometimes you just have an opinion and choose to be a dick about it.
Furthermore I want media w wlw in it to be normalized to the point that I have the luxury of picking and choosing what I want to read to see myself reflected in it. Part of that fantasy becoming reality is, yes, writing about LGBT folks being a thing done by straight ppl. They can’t learn how to do that if they never get a chance to try. So I want straight dudes to write about lesbians they spent like 400 pages developing as ppl and watching them have organic interactions w each other that had nothing to do w sex.
I think you’ll find few people are inclined to respect your unconventional definition of the word “criticism”. In any case, it seems to be entirely about the author, and whether or not they have the right to their own work, rather than the work itself.
You do not have the authority to speak for anyone but yourself, and yet carry on as if anyone who disagrees with you is simply wrong and uneducated. You suggest people seek out women’s perspectives on the topic, while ignoring those of the women speaking right here. You’re not engaging in good faith, or even in the same language.
im so glad your solution to this “problem” is to stop having WLW representation in this story. that’s exactly what i want as a certified gay, LESS representation for me when I consume media! Wowzers!
I want queer rep in my stories. Of course this means letting straight people write them (not that we know Abaddon is straight, but he is also a real person so I’m not gonna theorize because that shits disrespectful) because /theres more of them than there are of us/, statistically I’ll get more good things to read if straight people rep us too. I see nothing wrong with anything Abaddon wrote or drew in the story so far. I’m actually amazed he’s not a wlw, the everything is THAT good!
If seeing organic wlw relationships bothers you that much because the author is not a wlw, just stop reading instead of demanding the representation be LESS inclusive. :/
(Also cio going I suppose I’ll ravish thee is fucking hilarious, not tittilating. Ravish. My god.)
Repeating yourself accomplishes nothing, when at no time have you backed up your assertions with proof, facts, or logic.
Exactly this <3
I think it’s one thing to make a fruit, another to make a fruit that grants youth and life. Mottom’s fruits came from the combination of the nature of the person who became the tree (previously a powerful demiurge), plus the blood of the people the tree craved. Maybe there is another way (Solomon David hasn’t outwardly aged) but Mottom doesn’t seem to be aware of it. She hated her husband-tree but kept feeding it because she was scared to lose her power. When we last saw her, she had accepted that her empire will probably be over soon, leading to her to basically say “fuck it all” and and go into a reckless battle.
Maybe Allison will create something that heals or regenerates herself too, but this plum seems to be just the beginning for her.
Both Solomon David and Maya prevent aging with (no joke) “breathing exercises”. I feel like Abbadon is leading us on with that excuse, though, and there’ll be some reveal later.
Iβd assume that life extension is a standard goal of any mortal mage. The other classes, of course, don’t need to worry about it….
Y-you mean… uh… Hamon?
I am glad I am not the only reader uncomfortable with this being written by a man (excluding the obvious troll comment and the horrible responses to it thus far). Hopefully it won’t get much worse than this, but of course I also said that when Abaddon was making sure Cio’s breasts were in every panel in the previous book, thinking it could not get worse when of course we were greeted with that awful 00001 splash page.
Well. Fingers crossed. I really do enjoy this comic and I would hate to see it degrade in the name of the male gaze, especially considering the overarching theme of dismantling misogyny.
The comment was rightfully shot down because it was a blatant attempt at concern trolling. And that you and those other commentators aren’t bringing any meaningful points except that Abbadon is a guy and thus every shot of the girls must be inherently sexualized and bad in some manner brings me to the conclusion that you and your ilk are also concern trolls.
You can’t seriously be this deluded.
And you can’t be any more obvious.
Alright, I’ll just assume you’re the one trying to get a rise out of me then?
Regardless, at least complete reading a comment before you respond. You can’t say there’s “no meaningful points” when there clearly are several, unless you are just willfully ignoring them.
And I find your concerns are at best specious and overly biased. From here it sounds more that you’re angry that there are two lesbian characters in a relationship being open about their sexuality just because they’re written by a man.
I think you have to take into account that a lot of the people who are skeeved out by this depiction are members of the group being depicted. Like, putting our reasons aside, if real lesbians don’t like a dude’s portrayal of lesbians then maybe theres an issue with the portrayal. And like, the reason we have an issue with a straight dude depicting us is because usually when they do they fetishize us. our judgment is based on experience.
And I’ve been given no real reason so far to think Abbadon is doing that now. And just so you know I’m a member of such groups as well, and so far, the only other queer people I’ve seen that took any issue are in this comment section.
It’s a comic about angels and demons and magic and dead gods and the main character is fucking a demon… so what? Why is this an issue?
Please read our comments.
Good for you?
I’ve read your comments, good for me…?
While I agree that if there’s lesbians being upset over how they are depicted then they should be taken into consideration, I am also left wondering; why on Earth would you prioritize them when there’s plenty of us that simply don’t give a shit or that believe that it is well written????
Different people have different sensibilities after all (not ~lower standards~ like the other asshole over here said), so why prioritize one over the other? Why do you feel your opinion is more important just because you are offended? come on.
Thanks for writing all these comments out. I was also pretty uncomfortable about the bondage nun thing (the new page is still really horny…) and Allison’s shirt getting ripped up last chapter. I also feel like the author is dismissing concerns out of hand, which is frustrating considering it sounds like a lot of the people with reservations are wlw.
I do believe this romance subplot could turn out perfectly fine. I think Abbadon’s intentions here are genuinely good and I enjoyed the way Cio and Allison’s interactions up until now have been written; I personally think this page is cute and have cautious hope. To be honest, though, ever since I read Wisp’s review I’ve taken a step back and been like ah, hm about the whole piece.
Some of the responses to your comments are super unreasonable (I think two people called you a nazi? I’m…), hope you’re doing alright.
Like I commented to another person here, yeah, there’s plenty of queer people & women who are upset over some depictions made by Abbadon. But there’s also plenty that are not or that actually like how things are being done so far. (I absolutely adored the bondage nun for example.)
You want to be heard and that is reasonable but I don’t understand why should you be given a priority????????
Also I remember Wisp literally writing in their review that they did not bother to try to understand or even read the comic properly because it was overwhelming or whatever, so idk why you’d trust their review over your own perception.
A bit off topic for this page…but has anyone commented on how *similar* Alison and Incubus are starting to look to each other…cos it just hit me, while I was looking for a picture of Cio lighting a match with her tongue >.> !