Seriously, he’s my favorite Demiurge, and it drove me nuts to see people think he was worse than even Mottom. He’s definitely wrong in how he approached his kingdom… but he was trying his best to do what he thought was right.
Of course, what he thought was right is closer to what a Bronze Age king would think is right rather than a modern human, but still
He had more to show than intentions. His reign lasted eons, each moment of it peacefull, prosperous. It came crashing down, yes. Does that invalidate every war prevented till then? Was it not a utopia while it held? Ten-tousand years of peace is as close as anyone we ever seen in the series come close to having a good legacy.
I mean, it’s made pretty clear in both metatext and text that SD’s empire was a brutal totalitarian state. That woman spent 25 years in jail for drunkenness – that’s not the kind of sentence that a *good* state would institute. Yes, it was stable, and it was powerful, but it was deeply, deeply flawed.
I’d say the empire was stable *precisely because* it was inhuman to its citizens. No generally-considered-“good” utopia can exist for any extended period of time, because people are unruly, ungovernable, and imperfect – and as such will fuck up whatever ideal political system we may try to enforce.
And before anyone then argues for a brutal, inhuman empire of Dave Salami, we’ve just seen that it can’t last, either.
It’s actually a bit of this and the opposite problem.
People are often Too governable, being rather apathetic toward things like the basic human rights of others and corruption of the state when their basic needs are met. That’s why corruption is so easy.
They’re Also entirely ungovernable given the right reasons though. The moment a crisis happens(which is always an inevitability in our entropy poisoned universe) and basic needs aren’t met, even the most well put together utopia will crumble as people put their own Perceived needs(I.E. take much more than they need) over others.
This has caused an easily traceable Boom/Bust cycle in every civilization Ever where making a civilization too “Civilized” ends with a crumbling empire being torn apart by citizens acting like animals.
easy- then rather than shattering into 10’000 petty kingdoms of a single city where each claims rightful inheritance of the whole country, it’ll break down into 100 to 1’000 controlled by people who know how to react in an emergency.
Is it better to have your house burn down annually so you are better prepared to build a new one? Having a house that isn’t on fire and isn’t made of ashes is the point of having a house. Not having to rebuild for a long time is a success as much as it is a success for a swordsman to not have to draw their blade.
Let my blade grow dull and rusted. I’ll take a hundred generations dying of old age rather than bloodshed, the hundred-and-first being less fortunate, as an unparalleled victory.
Let it be said that sophism will be the end of philosophy.
For it is a false equivalence you put here.
The real question should rather be : would you prefer to have a house that can break, but all its inhabitants know how to build it again, or is it better to have a house that is indestructible as long as the head of your family keeps it steady everyday?
In one case, the house can break but it is of smaller consequences. And in the second, the house won’t break for a long time… But no one will remember how to put it together again if it does.
History forgets us all, ultimately, and so the senile old dodder should not be so much of a factor when we make our decisions.
An empire is a tool and nothing more, though it is oft attributed more importance than it is worth and made a false idol. It exists to keep the monsters at bay, from within as well as without, and to let men live. Its utility is measured by the number of years of prosperity it offers versus the number of years of terror and bared knives.
If its pillars erode to sand, so be it, they were always to be sand. If the empire falls another will be built by men who have never heard its name. So be it. But, despite all of that, if it was a good empire a great many would have lived and died under its mantle well where elsewhere and elsewhen they might have lived and died poorly.
The only worthy monument worth cherishing is a life well lived.
But freedom is also a factor in a life well-lived. If you live a long peaceful life, but forever under the yoke of your god-emperor-father, is it really your life, or are you just living the life he chose for you?
Trust us when we say that there’s no such thing as a “good empire.”
If the monster who rules you keeps other monsters away, still you are ruled by a monster, which is what would happen if your monster wasn’t there and those monsters weren’t driven away.
All villains want to be emperors when they grow up for a reason. They are the greatest evils of all.
Six Villains: All civilization is the empire, sometimes with the window dressing swapped out. Even the most free so long as a man must live by some form of common stricture past the strength of his own arm. It can be large or small, democratically elected or headed by a tyrant whose dictates come at the edge of a blade, it doesn’t matter. Will is still enforced.
If there can be no good empire than there can be no good democracy, no good rule whatsoever. The monster at the top… be it a person or a process… can be whatever you want it to be. Still its value, how good a monster it is, is a measurable thing and not all are equal.
Rebuilding a broken house constantly will take much more resources and labor. It will likely stifle the quality of life of its occupants and eventually render itself irreparable if enough resources are consumed. Truthfully both options will end in a broken state with no means to rebuild, option A just took the more laborious road there.
Those who desire eternal works will not find even dirt, for what they seek is less than an illusion. So you must ask, what value is held in chasing the ghosts of such ideas? Of a tower built to last a dozen years and one built for a hundred, in the end both will collapse, and both will inevitably be replaced. The only difference between these two is scale. Whether it be 4 or 4,000 years of arduous construction, prosperous stability, and then worn decline, in the end they are the same. Indeed, as they follow the same cycle regardless of lifespan, what true merit is there in age? You had best seek value elsewhere should you hope to find your towers real worth.
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Generation after generation of the people of his kingdom were born, lived and died in peace. While his laws were likely harsh they seem to have been fairly applied and people who kept their noses clean were likely left alone.
Was it freedom? No, not like we are used to. But it seems that a great many people in this world will gladly relinquish freedom for peace and security. My guess is that his world was no different.
Solomon is the best possible outcome, realistically speaking.
Is it great to live underneath it? Of course not, it’s a brutal fascist theocracy. But it is still the best realistic outcome when it comes to a world inhabited by literal demigods that stop time by breathing.
Democracy is built upon the premise that everybody is equal. How exactly Solomon David and some filthy farmer can ever be considered equal? A man capable to stall the Red God and some fat maggot of a human being whose greatest achievement in life will be to prolong their worthless lineage a few decades at best?
They are not. If Solomon decides to not be controlled, he can’t be controlled. If the farmer decides to not be controlled, he gets beaten to an inch of his life and thrown into a cell. That is the hypocrisy, the lie upon which any attempt to build a Democracy in the Multiverse would be built. That monsters like the Demiurges are on the same level as everyone else. They get to beat their own pain onto the senseless reality, everyone else gets to curl down and take their beating.
Solomon’s only sin was not being honest about it. To pretend he was enforcing a bulwark of civilization, rather than simply brutally crushing his maggot-people like the worthless meatbags they are.
Because the maggots would still have nowhere to go but cling to the sole of his feet.
He is not the “Best” outcome. Merely one of the BETTER ones.
The Best outcome is someone who will set up a democracy, Allow it to work within it’s confines and allow the people within it to do their best, with their own role being as a Guarantor of that Freedom. Someone to step in when oppression becomes the norm and Veto that path, but to otherwise stay out of the way of their people and just live life with them.
See, I’m not convinced democracy is actually viable in this fiction, when demiurges exist. Everything we do as humans in the real world relies on support from fellow humans on some level.
Here, demiurges are free to act with near-impunity, and societies warp themselves around their existence. Their mere existence changes the political calculus.
The notion of demiurges playing “Defender of Democracy” is misleading, I fear.
In the first way, I see the Demiurges as a sadly-necessary narrative construct. It is really, REALLY hard to write a story that can focus on thousands or millions of people the way it can focus on a single person. Al-Yisun and Solomon have an outsized impact on the world because that allows the story to examine their respective philosophies in detail. In this sense, demiurges are free to act with near-impunity because they are representative of the concepts they fight for–it’s not that Solomon is just That Strong, it’s that Solomon is the CONCEPT of a king who is That Strong, a representation of every king throughout existence. In turn, Al-Yisun is a representation of every rebellion throughout existence.
In the second way: It’s worth noting that Al-Yisun started as an ordinary person. What makes Al-Yisun powerful is not that she was given a key, or even really the fact that she’s survived so many incredible things. The entire point of seeing her face the Maybe Sword is a demonstration of the true power she wields: the ability to question the status quo. Other things are cut by the Maybe Sword, even though the Maybe Sword is only the suggestion of a sword, because they are not willing to reject the idea that the Maybe Sword is real. In other words, the reason Al-Yisun may be able to defeat Solomon is not that she is as powerful as a demiurge, but that she is able to ask the question: Is a demiurge really that powerful in the first place? You say you swing the most powerful sword in existence at me, and that I should fall to pieces where I stand–and yet, I am still alive.
Yeahhhh I see your point in part 2, but she also WAS given The Best Key and has absolutely utilized it. I think I agree with your narrative structure argument and what it’s an analogy for, but I do think stories have to be careful about what they present in-universe to hold on to their messages. I think I’m in camp “I could minorly criticize some of these narrative decisions because they take away from the messaging by showing the ‘democracy’ argument as a little infeasible, but the story and messages are still great, you just have to try a little harder to ignore those bits”
The best outcome is for one to take all 777,777 Keys and shatter each and every one of them into a thousand, thousand, THOUSAND pieces, hurl each of those shards into the heart of a newborn star, and then hurl the Master Key into the deepest darkest pit in all of existence, from whence nothing can return.
Even so, people will fight over whatever form of power exists and the cruellest people will often end up consolidating power. I suppose it does help if the dictator does not wield the literal power of God, so rebellions actually have a chance of success.
Solomon is the king who cuts down a thousand men with no mere motion beyond intent and a word spoken. And when was his empire stripped from him? Not when an angel became divine and broke his skin for the first time in a thousand years. Not when his monument to glory was smashed to pieces and his capital broken. Not when the pact of the Seven was thrown into disarray at the feet of the Wheel-Turner. He got up and continued fighting with diamond certainty of what was needed from him. What brought Solomon David low was no feat of violence but the words of a former drunk.
How could you possibly say that Solomon David is unequivocally greater than that of a farmer, because he treats man as dust and walks through them as if nothing? Because he is the most brutal and the most cruel and these are the only qualities of a ruler? A just society is not the one where the benevolent controls the malicious, it is one where malice is not bred and control is not needed. The existence of inequality does not justify tyranny.
Solomon’s sin was not any kind of dishonesty, he is consistently honest about the rules he will operate under and what he will do and believes, his sin is- as White Chain says -creating a system that could never move on from him. One that constantly reassures him that he is the pinnacle of their values and that they need him and would crumble without him. He’s treated his fellows as children only he can feed and clothe, he as the father of the world who soothes them and tell them they have nothing to fear, he as the one who brings prosperity and peace to the land.
He has built himself a cage which he traps his people in. He brings nothing to them but violence and fists but has convinced or forced others into seeing those who bring actual good to the world like farmers that they are nothing but maggots compared to him. His glorified vanity project is not “the best realistic outcome”, I’m certain even the Nihils of Jadis live better more pleasant lives than those of the Celestial Empire.
” And when was his empire stripped from him? Not when an angel became divine and broke his skin for the first time in a thousand years.”
No, that was exactly it was stripped from him. Why do you think he gave unto White Chain his power? To keep his kingdom clasped to his bosom? Do you think he couldn’t have rebuilt his empire? Reforged what little was shattered in that fight?
He could have. No what he couldn’t do was give White Chain what she asked, what by his own word she was due, because he did not understand how.
His entire world was built upon the ideal that power flows from the strong. He has no capacity to understand that power can be built among the weak, that together the many can be stronger than one (which is the primacy of the fascist ideal, so no, Solomon was not a fascist*, he was a monarch).
* I swear every fool in this thread claiming he was fascist. Fascist does not mean “everything I don’t like”, it’s a system where everything is bent to work towards the betterment of the state under the ideal that the state (the few) knows what is best for the populace (the many, just like socialism does). It’s a heavily regulated capitalism, where the means of production might be privately owned, but the output is determined by the state The only difference between fascism and socialism (as ideals) is that fascists don’t lie about who gets to keep the wealth.
English dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive. If what is in the dictionary does not describe reality, or the real-world use of the world, then the dictionary is wrong.
The way people here talk about fascism, you’d think it had been invented in 2000BC, not 1915.
Did mammoths not exist before someone came up with a name to classify them? Did stars not exist before man bound the idea in the form of language? Fascism may have been coined relatively recently, but that doesn’t mean the word can’t accurately be used to describe regimes that existed before the birth of the word. Not every monarchy that ever existed was fascistic as not every one fueled an ultranationalist ideology amongst the populace (on every other count, monarchies necessarily fit the requirements of fascism). Solomon’s definitively did.
He didn’t rebuild his empire because he didn’t want to, silly. His whole point was he didn’t want to rule but was so prideful he thought the people needed him.
King of Swords 10-165. Gog Agog literally monologues at him about how his people think he lost and, though they’re wrong, it doesn’t matter because Solomon’s reign is meaningless. And he *knows* it! He was straight up about to execute white chain in the previous page, but then gives her the win and says he’s “learned something.” The crowds are even drawn the same way they are when they’re yelling at him after Jagganoth fucks him up.
… also he’s fascist by your own definition. He literally thought that he (the state) knew what was best for the people- him!
“He brings nothing to them but violence and fists ….”
Oh, I would debate that. He brings violence and fists to those who oppose his reign. But to those who support it – or at least do not actively oppose it – he brings the ability to live their lives without violence or crime and to work to earn an honest living and keep the fruits of their labor for themselves and their families.
Not that I would care to live under such a system. But it’s no surprise that generations of humans have been content to do so. As the Declaration of Independence says, “… all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.”
Solomon’s sin was an ancient one; hubris. One that has offended gods ever since man came to recognize that there was a plane of existence beyond the material world.
“Don’t tell the beetle that,” said Intra, who was very skilled at smiling. “If you don’t tell him he will learn it anyway and cut the lion in half with a single blow.”
Keep in mind that Gog-Agog was the one whose departure cost them the chance to seal Jagganoth cleanly. Solomon’s (well, more Mottom’s in the moment, but if mr. purple perfect great statesman wants to be taken seriously as a leader, responsibility for proactively resolving internal conflicts is part of that) failure to maintain positive relations with literal maggots is arguably the pivotal proximate cause of his failure as a ruler and Rayuba’s subsequent devastation. He challenged his many sons to equal his own accomplishments, but did nothing to help them rise toward actual success in that.
No, democracy is built on the premise that people aren’t equal in power, but should act and be treated as if they are. It is fundamentally in opposition to the natural order, which is why it is held up as either ideal or an abomination, depending on your preferences.
I mean, you can certainly think Solomon is one of the least bad of the Demiurge. But that’s rather missing the point, IMO. He still perpetuates the same rotten system as the other Demiurges. If anything, he was that systems most effective champion due to projecting material prosperity. At the expense of total oppression and dependance upon himself.
You can be authoritarian when you decide to change your nation, but your nation cannot be authoritarian if you want it to hold for long. Sadly, Demiurges has to learn it the hard way, with all their power and long life.
In other news… He DID transfered his Key, huh. And he’s still alive. Damn, he’s good at this at least.
And yes, White Chain, it’s amazing. Good ole food in your belly and drink on your table – even when everything is shit, they would make it a little bit better! Enjoy the world of humans.
He’s a king, not necessarily a fascist. Unlike fascists or truly brutal evil dictators, he actually cares about his people. In fact, he even viewed such massive responsibilities to them as a kind of mental cage. A fascist dictator, or a true tyrant, cares not for the people beyond that they HAVE people who are gullible and afraid and thus will follow orders.
David has true love for his kingdom and his people, and almost died to uphold a duty given to him by his subjects. That’s a fine king, and we can’t judge him using our modern concepts which only apply to elected officials – many of whom are fascists these days to begin with.
Our entire world and its history would be a joke in comparison to the lifespan of one of his beard hairs. We have one world, his kingdom spans 111,111 universes. Perhaps he is the greatest leader ever if he’s managed to keep those universes together and thriving, but simply is incompatible with our way of doing things.
A misreading, friend Preem. Recall the title of Solomon David.
Paternum.
Our Father.
There is no shortage of dictators, fascist and otherwise, who consider themselves the fathers of their nations, and under whose stewardship their children do perfectly well! All claim to be motivated by love for their people, and it would be foolishness to proclaim all such claims to be lies! But children become adults. And fathers become old. And the fault in all such aspirants to Royalty is the one Solomon David showed us in the moment we learned his Word.
The father who reduces his children’s existence to trying to please him, and who will not suffer them to learn from their mistakes and grow, damns both to an eternity of contemptuous enslavement. They will never grow beyond him. And he will never have an existence beyond disciplining them whenever they try to step beyond the bounds he has set.
There is love, between a Paternum and his people. But there is also acid contempt, and a rage that dare not speak its name for fear of consequence, that only grows with the passing of years. Until, in the twilight of all he cares for, his children reach out to strike him with all their force, because they and all they know have been sacrificed for the sake of the Father’s pride.
The promise of Paternum is that he will halt the turning of the Wheel.
A lot of dictators claim to care about their people in propaganda pieces meant to control and placate their victims. Thats not the same thing as them actually caring. Very few dictators ever remotely give the slightest hint of actually giving a damn based on their actions. Given his reaction to what happened to Rayuba it seems fair to say that he really did care despite his awful methods of showing it. Not that his good intentions did anything to lessen the suffering of those who were made to endure his means of showing that affection, mind you. It just makes him slightly more sympathetic and tragic a figure for the potential he had to do good if someone could have aligned his intent with proper action compared to your average scum bag dictator. There is just something inherently tragic about seeing a man who sincerely wants to do right but gets caught up in their personal hang ups/demons and makes a hash job of it to the point of bringing misery instead.
You mean like Fidel Castro who spent decades risking his life in poverty and violence to fight the cruel state that preceded him? I want to say he was a lawyer for the poor but that might be someone else.
Or maybe Mussolini who did much the same,
Or maybe Linen who fought to end feudalism, a thing worse than slavery. Not many plantation owners had slave butchering competitions.
Did you know Hitler was a true hero to his people before the war? He did great things. Things all knew needed to be done but that weren’t politically viable without centralized power.
After the war, many had to rectify that their loving fathers, husbands, and sons had committed, and sometimes quite enjoyed, sadism.
‘Evil’ is a myth. There are just broken people. Never met one who wasn’t broken somehow.
Finally somebody gets it. You have the best understanding here of solomons character yet. Way too many people here are super fixated on painting him as a stereotypical bad guy, its actually getting annoying.
I don’t think the Masters were right in the lesson they tried to teach him either, remember, violence is inevitable. Just tapping out of life when you have the power to do something isn’t the answer.
It should be noted that they didn’t do nothing, they specifically went out and murdered anyone outside of their order that was starting to gain knowledge of Ki Rata, on the basis that it was too dangerous.
I think they might have been on the right approach, just too small scale – the only appropriate usage of obscene power is to prevent the creation of obscene power that will be used for anything else.
Apart from that, don’t use the obscene power to tamper with anything.
Yes, the problem is that their approach had no principle, no philosophy to guide it. It was simply a rule without logic. “Nobody else should wield Ki Rata”, rather than something like “Nobody should use great power to harm or control others”. They focused only on the tool, rather than its use it was put to.
I’d worry that if they expanded too far beyond Ki Rata to people with too much power in general that they may well become one of those exact people/powers with too much power.
Really, Solomon himself isn’t too far from being an example of someone with great power trying to do things for a perceived “greater good”.
He tried to make the best empire he could to the best of his knowledge. It’s just that the method he chose was flawed. He even seemed to realize that it was flawed, which was the whole point of finding an heir. He’s diamond; changing his ways is impossible, so he needed someone else to fix the empire. But he couldn’t give the throne to someone weak, because in that world you need strength to back anything up. Until he could find someone to take over though, he couldn’t stop doing what he was doing, because abdicating would be far worse than anything else.
Well this is depressing, I started this comic yesterday and was hoping i had plenty of reading but I caught up and must endure the wait like everyone else😭
I will say that it has been excellent business selling ice here, my still-delayed payment for the Tournament contract notwithstanding. With quality like ours, I am not surprised the first Angel bound in flesh instead of ash finds the food and drink of Throne worth consuming.
White Chain’s last line kind of makes it sound like she never drank anything before getting her new body, but I don’t think that’s true. Didn’t we see her make coffee (or was it tea?) for Allison in the first book?
Ha, I love the thought of White Chain becoming this stoic demiurge/super cop/peacekeeper and at the same time she’s in awe at all the little pleasures that come from having a physical body instead of one made of stone. How fun.
So, Solomon is ‘somewhere’ uh? I wonder if he had some kind of revelation, (kinda like Maya had after meeting with her master) and realized he had to step down, change his perspective on things… I wonder…
To be fair, most people couldn’t be lying there and most of the people who could are people he definitely wouldn’t, or couldn’t, give his key to. Deciding to give it to the first person he ran into pretty much also meant deciding to give it to White Chain.
What makes you say that? His whole tournament was, nominally, about finding an heir, even if he went about it bass akwards. She was also the only one able to match him and he repeatedly acknowledged her. To top it all off, her new form is clearly a result and reflection of her interactions with him, which should speak to his pride.
Solomon has a LOT of flaws, but I don’t think a lack of caring was ever one of them.
Her fleshly body seems to be partially formed from his drop of blood. In a way, she is his daughter. His lineages of sons failed to inherit from him, and he has always loved his daughters most. On top of that she did injure him, which was the requirement to inherit his power and kingdom.
I never thought of that! If the seed of White Chain’s body is the drop of Solomon’s blood she drew in the tournament, it totally explains why she looks like she could be his daughter. I really like that idea.
Earlier in the series, when talking with Zaid and during his match with White Chain, he did express a desire to move on from ruling. The only thing that kept him was fear of what would happen to his people if he abandoned his realm. Now, despite his presence and his ironclad rule, his kingdom was devastated. Maybe he finally realized the flaws in his approach. He couldn’t protect them from everything and also wasn’t able to build a kingdom that surpassed him. So he decided to pass on his power to the one person who appeared up to the challenge in even the slightest way.
Because White Chain was likely the only damn angel left who was actually doing her job, and a rare person who values rule of law. She understood, too the hypocrisy in her “brotherhood” in modern times.
White Chain wasn’t the best choice, she was the only choice that gives a shit about people, that laws be fair, that would-while not knowing if Alice was alive or not-use her grief and wonder to be a better guardian. Who understands that power is a goddamn trap.
I expect he’s thought about giving his key to his successor millions of times. He is angry the world refuses to match his intentions but still carries through his part.
I‘ve got my fingers crossed that Solomon is slowly undergoing an opposite transformation of White Chain’s. A soul sundering it’s flesh to claim flaming wings.
Part of me really hopes at least one of the Seven finally realise the futility of their conquest and abandon their shackle-throne for something new. And with most of them dead and the few left enabling the Red God’s return, Solomon seems like the most likely.
My question is if he’s actually started on the path of royalty, in earnist or if he’s merely aping what he sees as Zoss’s path. Of course, there’s also the possibility that he’s just following through on his promises from the tournament.
Either way, I’m now looking forward to his inevitable appearance in much the same way I’m looking forward to seeing how Zoss will show up this chapter.
I think he’s just fucking sick of it at this point. He already was straight up not having a good time as emperor, seeing his homeworld razed twice is kind of an understandable moment of “you know what, fuck all of this actually”
Almost all of them have realised its futility. They’ve tried everything to abdicate short of actually giving away their power. Which Solomon here seems to finally understand he can just do.
So far, I think the only ones who are still drinking the kool aid are Gog Agog and Incubus. And the only reason Incubus has a key is that Maya gave up hers.
I believe it was mentioned, though, that Solomon was the *closest* to royalty? I’m unsure. But I think Kingfisher is right, him finally giving up his key might be the path.
Do we know why Gog Agog covets a key/power? I figure it’s her using power as a way to fill the void left by her hating herself or having no real friends.
I do believe that she holds the Key so that others do not look down upon her. Every Demiurge grows to resent their crown and see it for the cage it is. Each Demiurge is chained by their sin. Gog’s would be envy and vanity. To give up her key would be to admit she is lesser then the other keybarers, that they are right to look down upon her, that she cannot have what they have.
Just as Solomon was a prisoner of pride, Mottom of gluttony, Mammon of greed, Incubus by the lust for power, Jagganoth by his wrath, and Jadis by the true face of sloth: despair.
OMG, what a great day this is in the comments. The idea that Solomon will turn into an angel in some sort of weird balancing act with White Chain turning into a human is brilliant! I also read for the first time today the idea that White Chain’s new body is made from the drop of blood she drew from Solomon in the tournament. Both of these complimentary thoughts dropped my jaw.
Well, seeing at the particular word of god Salami Dave once bore, I guess
heheh
I guess uh, I guess you could say that
hehehihihih
I guess you could say that Diamond is
hihiheihihiahiahiah
that
Entirely possible she won’t be that into it, honestly! I certainly never have been. But it would certainly be nice if she discovered a new kind of pleasure from it, yes.
Allison just doesn’t give a fuck anymore, I love her so much. And is it just me, or is White Chain seriously hot? Considering she’s, you know, a comic character? We’re talking hawt with a capital HAW, here
Preem George, you perhaps undersell the matter. You may recall the lord of the Middle Army, and the power he wears solely because its previous bearer cast it aside?
Behold 82 White Chain Returns From Emptiness To Subdue Evil. Bearer of the word “Diamond,” and God of the Seven Part World.
Fortunately for Preem Solomon, the long-delayed next step on the road to Royalty lies before him. A city, shattered by the war of the demiurges, its market squares empty and ashen.
There are no shortage of barrels for him to take up shop in.
Anyone remember when Death of the Endless was briefly that human named Didi and she said, “I love food. Food is so great. I mean, it’s so much more interesting than photosynthesis…”
Follow the adventures of our new protagonist in this comic’s Sequel:
“Walk Six Billion Steps”
Watch as Solomon David walks the road to Royalty, while learning important life lessons, making new weird friends, meeting long dead gods and trying to make sense of his family tree!
“Go then. I curse you with strength. Make of it what you will…”
Just after an apocalyptic death match wipes out Rayuba and threatens to unravel all of the Wheel.
*slow, sarcastic clap* Nice timing, David Solomon. Great handover, David Solomon. Way to start off the FNG, David Solomon.
Allison: Wait until you try smoking! ‘Cos… heh! – then you’ll be White Chain s-*mmmph!*
Cio: *claps hand over Allison’s mouth* (hisses) Do not be essayin’ so vilesome and horrorful a pun, ye poxmouth bit- …hey, I’m back! *looks herself over* *looks Allison over* *grabs Allison’s pipe* *very deep puff and slow exhale* I guess this means I’ll have to forgive ye… *deep puff* bumblebrains… ♥
Trying to work out if his scene with White Chain is before or after the orb. It makes more sense if he gave her the key before pushing Jagganoth into the orb, and currently he’s in the orb with J; otherwise why is J not free and active? But the whole battle on Rayuba didn’t seem to last as long as a day.
After the orb. White chain was unconscious for a day(ish), and it’s clear that the orb happened, like, moments after Alison and Cio fell into the water.
I thought that Solomon was in the orb with Jagganoth too, but.. I really like this twist. The Technique of Relief was taglined “Transmigration of Immortal Souls.” It seems, now, like it wasn’t a self-sacrifice, but instead involved a more fundamental change in Solomon’s perspective.
Also… Solomon appears to no longer have a key on this page. The purple appears to be in his arm following the orb. I’m sure that’s significant, somehow…?
Salami Dave still kicking, he is no longer a demiurge, but assuming his body is more or less intact, he IS still a master or Ki Rata. Dave redemption arc?
considering he’s(she’s? their?)and wc’s talk in the mattom ark about the tea cup, that would probably be symbolic. I’m not half deep enough into the lore or media literate enough to figure out what it would be symbolic for, but it sure would be.
As much as I would love to see more of Juggernaut Star, given that they usually take… millenia in the void to reincarnate, I don’t think it’s likely we’ll see them again.
Pretty sure they weren’t truly killed- we see their armor fused together, but then a little red and white lightning escapes from her helmet. I figured that was supposed to be her teleporting back into the void. (King of Swords 9-128, btw)
WOW I’m early to this one. I know hes a fascist but damn hes cool. but wrong. but cool. damn I apologise for my simpish ways daddy solomon.
He’s living proof that even a hypothetical benevolent dictatorship has inherent flaws.
Seriously, he’s my favorite Demiurge, and it drove me nuts to see people think he was worse than even Mottom. He’s definitely wrong in how he approached his kingdom… but he was trying his best to do what he thought was right.
Of course, what he thought was right is closer to what a Bronze Age king would think is right rather than a modern human, but still
“good intentions” don’t matter much to the people of the kingdom, especially now
He had more to show than intentions. His reign lasted eons, each moment of it peacefull, prosperous. It came crashing down, yes. Does that invalidate every war prevented till then? Was it not a utopia while it held? Ten-tousand years of peace is as close as anyone we ever seen in the series come close to having a good legacy.
I mean, it’s made pretty clear in both metatext and text that SD’s empire was a brutal totalitarian state. That woman spent 25 years in jail for drunkenness – that’s not the kind of sentence that a *good* state would institute. Yes, it was stable, and it was powerful, but it was deeply, deeply flawed.
I’d say the empire was stable *precisely because* it was inhuman to its citizens. No generally-considered-“good” utopia can exist for any extended period of time, because people are unruly, ungovernable, and imperfect – and as such will fuck up whatever ideal political system we may try to enforce.
And before anyone then argues for a brutal, inhuman empire of Dave Salami, we’ve just seen that it can’t last, either.
Nothing ever does.
That’s a pretty cynical pov, people are imperfect but far from ungovernable. Especially once basic needs are met.
It’s actually a bit of this and the opposite problem.
People are often Too governable, being rather apathetic toward things like the basic human rights of others and corruption of the state when their basic needs are met. That’s why corruption is so easy.
They’re Also entirely ungovernable given the right reasons though. The moment a crisis happens(which is always an inevitability in our entropy poisoned universe) and basic needs aren’t met, even the most well put together utopia will crumble as people put their own Perceived needs(I.E. take much more than they need) over others.
This has caused an easily traceable Boom/Bust cycle in every civilization Ever where making a civilization too “Civilized” ends with a crumbling empire being torn apart by citizens acting like animals.
It is a demonstration of the principle the human Lao Tze discovered, oft demonstrated by the angels. Hard things are simply in the process of dying.
And when doom came, his citizens, after 10000 years of peace, were not well-ready. Better to have small wars on a regular basis. Keeps sharp.
I’m not sure how well your “sharpness” will prepare you for Tsar Bomba getting dropped on your capitol.
easy- then rather than shattering into 10’000 petty kingdoms of a single city where each claims rightful inheritance of the whole country, it’ll break down into 100 to 1’000 controlled by people who know how to react in an emergency.
Is it better to have your house burn down annually so you are better prepared to build a new one? Having a house that isn’t on fire and isn’t made of ashes is the point of having a house. Not having to rebuild for a long time is a success as much as it is a success for a swordsman to not have to draw their blade.
Let my blade grow dull and rusted. I’ll take a hundred generations dying of old age rather than bloodshed, the hundred-and-first being less fortunate, as an unparalleled victory.
Popping by to say how excellent this reply was.
Let it be said that sophism will be the end of philosophy.
For it is a false equivalence you put here.
The real question should rather be : would you prefer to have a house that can break, but all its inhabitants know how to build it again, or is it better to have a house that is indestructible as long as the head of your family keeps it steady everyday?
In one case, the house can break but it is of smaller consequences. And in the second, the house won’t break for a long time… But no one will remember how to put it together again if it does.
History marches on whatever you pick.
History forgets us all, ultimately, and so the senile old dodder should not be so much of a factor when we make our decisions.
An empire is a tool and nothing more, though it is oft attributed more importance than it is worth and made a false idol. It exists to keep the monsters at bay, from within as well as without, and to let men live. Its utility is measured by the number of years of prosperity it offers versus the number of years of terror and bared knives.
If its pillars erode to sand, so be it, they were always to be sand. If the empire falls another will be built by men who have never heard its name. So be it. But, despite all of that, if it was a good empire a great many would have lived and died under its mantle well where elsewhere and elsewhen they might have lived and died poorly.
The only worthy monument worth cherishing is a life well lived.
But freedom is also a factor in a life well-lived. If you live a long peaceful life, but forever under the yoke of your god-emperor-father, is it really your life, or are you just living the life he chose for you?
Trust us when we say that there’s no such thing as a “good empire.”
If the monster who rules you keeps other monsters away, still you are ruled by a monster, which is what would happen if your monster wasn’t there and those monsters weren’t driven away.
All villains want to be emperors when they grow up for a reason. They are the greatest evils of all.
Six Villains: All civilization is the empire, sometimes with the window dressing swapped out. Even the most free so long as a man must live by some form of common stricture past the strength of his own arm. It can be large or small, democratically elected or headed by a tyrant whose dictates come at the edge of a blade, it doesn’t matter. Will is still enforced.
If there can be no good empire than there can be no good democracy, no good rule whatsoever. The monster at the top… be it a person or a process… can be whatever you want it to be. Still its value, how good a monster it is, is a measurable thing and not all are equal.
Rebuilding a broken house constantly will take much more resources and labor. It will likely stifle the quality of life of its occupants and eventually render itself irreparable if enough resources are consumed. Truthfully both options will end in a broken state with no means to rebuild, option A just took the more laborious road there.
Those who desire eternal works will not find even dirt, for what they seek is less than an illusion. So you must ask, what value is held in chasing the ghosts of such ideas? Of a tower built to last a dozen years and one built for a hundred, in the end both will collapse, and both will inevitably be replaced. The only difference between these two is scale. Whether it be 4 or 4,000 years of arduous construction, prosperous stability, and then worn decline, in the end they are the same. Indeed, as they follow the same cycle regardless of lifespan, what true merit is there in age? You had best seek value elsewhere should you hope to find your towers real worth.
I’m replying to you in the past.
Another piece of poetry for my growing collection of “Cool Stuff From the K6BD Comments Section”.
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EAT PANT
EAT SIX BILLION PANT
Don’t sully that word. Mr. David’s rule was merely the “”best”” in a shitpit of bad options.
Actually, not even that.
Generation after generation of the people of his kingdom were born, lived and died in peace. While his laws were likely harsh they seem to have been fairly applied and people who kept their noses clean were likely left alone.
Was it freedom? No, not like we are used to. But it seems that a great many people in this world will gladly relinquish freedom for peace and security. My guess is that his world was no different.
Solomon is the best possible outcome, realistically speaking.
Is it great to live underneath it? Of course not, it’s a brutal fascist theocracy. But it is still the best realistic outcome when it comes to a world inhabited by literal demigods that stop time by breathing.
Democracy is built upon the premise that everybody is equal. How exactly Solomon David and some filthy farmer can ever be considered equal? A man capable to stall the Red God and some fat maggot of a human being whose greatest achievement in life will be to prolong their worthless lineage a few decades at best?
They are not. If Solomon decides to not be controlled, he can’t be controlled. If the farmer decides to not be controlled, he gets beaten to an inch of his life and thrown into a cell. That is the hypocrisy, the lie upon which any attempt to build a Democracy in the Multiverse would be built. That monsters like the Demiurges are on the same level as everyone else. They get to beat their own pain onto the senseless reality, everyone else gets to curl down and take their beating.
Solomon’s only sin was not being honest about it. To pretend he was enforcing a bulwark of civilization, rather than simply brutally crushing his maggot-people like the worthless meatbags they are.
Because the maggots would still have nowhere to go but cling to the sole of his feet.
He is not the “Best” outcome. Merely one of the BETTER ones.
The Best outcome is someone who will set up a democracy, Allow it to work within it’s confines and allow the people within it to do their best, with their own role being as a Guarantor of that Freedom. Someone to step in when oppression becomes the norm and Veto that path, but to otherwise stay out of the way of their people and just live life with them.
So the best option is white chain! we love to see it.
See, I’m not convinced democracy is actually viable in this fiction, when demiurges exist. Everything we do as humans in the real world relies on support from fellow humans on some level.
Here, demiurges are free to act with near-impunity, and societies warp themselves around their existence. Their mere existence changes the political calculus.
The notion of demiurges playing “Defender of Democracy” is misleading, I fear.
I see it in two ways:
In the first way, I see the Demiurges as a sadly-necessary narrative construct. It is really, REALLY hard to write a story that can focus on thousands or millions of people the way it can focus on a single person. Al-Yisun and Solomon have an outsized impact on the world because that allows the story to examine their respective philosophies in detail. In this sense, demiurges are free to act with near-impunity because they are representative of the concepts they fight for–it’s not that Solomon is just That Strong, it’s that Solomon is the CONCEPT of a king who is That Strong, a representation of every king throughout existence. In turn, Al-Yisun is a representation of every rebellion throughout existence.
In the second way: It’s worth noting that Al-Yisun started as an ordinary person. What makes Al-Yisun powerful is not that she was given a key, or even really the fact that she’s survived so many incredible things. The entire point of seeing her face the Maybe Sword is a demonstration of the true power she wields: the ability to question the status quo. Other things are cut by the Maybe Sword, even though the Maybe Sword is only the suggestion of a sword, because they are not willing to reject the idea that the Maybe Sword is real. In other words, the reason Al-Yisun may be able to defeat Solomon is not that she is as powerful as a demiurge, but that she is able to ask the question: Is a demiurge really that powerful in the first place? You say you swing the most powerful sword in existence at me, and that I should fall to pieces where I stand–and yet, I am still alive.
Yeahhhh I see your point in part 2, but she also WAS given The Best Key and has absolutely utilized it. I think I agree with your narrative structure argument and what it’s an analogy for, but I do think stories have to be careful about what they present in-universe to hold on to their messages. I think I’m in camp “I could minorly criticize some of these narrative decisions because they take away from the messaging by showing the ‘democracy’ argument as a little infeasible, but the story and messages are still great, you just have to try a little harder to ignore those bits”
At least someone gets it.
At least someone gets it U_U
“within it’s confines”
What a beautiful phrase that encapsulates tyranny.
The best outcome is for one to take all 777,777 Keys and shatter each and every one of them into a thousand, thousand, THOUSAND pieces, hurl each of those shards into the heart of a newborn star, and then hurl the Master Key into the deepest darkest pit in all of existence, from whence nothing can return.
Even so, people will fight over whatever form of power exists and the cruellest people will often end up consolidating power. I suppose it does help if the dictator does not wield the literal power of God, so rebellions actually have a chance of success.
This is true.
Solomon is the king who cuts down a thousand men with no mere motion beyond intent and a word spoken. And when was his empire stripped from him? Not when an angel became divine and broke his skin for the first time in a thousand years. Not when his monument to glory was smashed to pieces and his capital broken. Not when the pact of the Seven was thrown into disarray at the feet of the Wheel-Turner. He got up and continued fighting with diamond certainty of what was needed from him. What brought Solomon David low was no feat of violence but the words of a former drunk.
How could you possibly say that Solomon David is unequivocally greater than that of a farmer, because he treats man as dust and walks through them as if nothing? Because he is the most brutal and the most cruel and these are the only qualities of a ruler? A just society is not the one where the benevolent controls the malicious, it is one where malice is not bred and control is not needed. The existence of inequality does not justify tyranny.
Solomon’s sin was not any kind of dishonesty, he is consistently honest about the rules he will operate under and what he will do and believes, his sin is- as White Chain says -creating a system that could never move on from him. One that constantly reassures him that he is the pinnacle of their values and that they need him and would crumble without him. He’s treated his fellows as children only he can feed and clothe, he as the father of the world who soothes them and tell them they have nothing to fear, he as the one who brings prosperity and peace to the land.
He has built himself a cage which he traps his people in. He brings nothing to them but violence and fists but has convinced or forced others into seeing those who bring actual good to the world like farmers that they are nothing but maggots compared to him. His glorified vanity project is not “the best realistic outcome”, I’m certain even the Nihils of Jadis live better more pleasant lives than those of the Celestial Empire.
i am glad there are people more rhetorically competent than myself around here, it’s good inoculation
” And when was his empire stripped from him? Not when an angel became divine and broke his skin for the first time in a thousand years.”
No, that was exactly it was stripped from him. Why do you think he gave unto White Chain his power? To keep his kingdom clasped to his bosom? Do you think he couldn’t have rebuilt his empire? Reforged what little was shattered in that fight?
He could have. No what he couldn’t do was give White Chain what she asked, what by his own word she was due, because he did not understand how.
His entire world was built upon the ideal that power flows from the strong. He has no capacity to understand that power can be built among the weak, that together the many can be stronger than one (which is the primacy of the fascist ideal, so no, Solomon was not a fascist*, he was a monarch).
* I swear every fool in this thread claiming he was fascist. Fascist does not mean “everything I don’t like”, it’s a system where everything is bent to work towards the betterment of the state under the ideal that the state (the few) knows what is best for the populace (the many, just like socialism does). It’s a heavily regulated capitalism, where the means of production might be privately owned, but the output is determined by the state The only difference between fascism and socialism (as ideals) is that fascists don’t lie about who gets to keep the wealth.
So confidently wrong. Literally just buy a dictionary, as a first step, and then try again.
English dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive. If what is in the dictionary does not describe reality, or the real-world use of the world, then the dictionary is wrong.
The way people here talk about fascism, you’d think it had been invented in 2000BC, not 1915.
Did mammoths not exist before someone came up with a name to classify them? Did stars not exist before man bound the idea in the form of language? Fascism may have been coined relatively recently, but that doesn’t mean the word can’t accurately be used to describe regimes that existed before the birth of the word. Not every monarchy that ever existed was fascistic as not every one fueled an ultranationalist ideology amongst the populace (on every other count, monarchies necessarily fit the requirements of fascism). Solomon’s definitively did.
“The way people here talk about fascism, you’d think it had been invented in 2000BC, not 1915.”
Fascism *was* invented in 2000 B.C. Or probably before, actually.
He didn’t rebuild his empire because he didn’t want to, silly. His whole point was he didn’t want to rule but was so prideful he thought the people needed him.
King of Swords 10-165. Gog Agog literally monologues at him about how his people think he lost and, though they’re wrong, it doesn’t matter because Solomon’s reign is meaningless. And he *knows* it! He was straight up about to execute white chain in the previous page, but then gives her the win and says he’s “learned something.” The crowds are even drawn the same way they are when they’re yelling at him after Jagganoth fucks him up.
… also he’s fascist by your own definition. He literally thought that he (the state) knew what was best for the people- him!
The sad and slightly diabolical stuffed donkey is wise.
“He brings nothing to them but violence and fists ….”
Oh, I would debate that. He brings violence and fists to those who oppose his reign. But to those who support it – or at least do not actively oppose it – he brings the ability to live their lives without violence or crime and to work to earn an honest living and keep the fruits of their labor for themselves and their families.
Not that I would care to live under such a system. But it’s no surprise that generations of humans have been content to do so. As the Declaration of Independence says, “… all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.”
Solomon’s sin was an ancient one; hubris. One that has offended gods ever since man came to recognize that there was a plane of existence beyond the material world.
Unwise to speak ill of maggots in a world where Gog holds sway.
god DAMN there are some weirdos in this fandom
“Don’t tell the beetle that,” said Intra, who was very skilled at smiling. “If you don’t tell him he will learn it anyway and cut the lion in half with a single blow.”
Keep in mind that Gog-Agog was the one whose departure cost them the chance to seal Jagganoth cleanly. Solomon’s (well, more Mottom’s in the moment, but if mr. purple perfect great statesman wants to be taken seriously as a leader, responsibility for proactively resolving internal conflicts is part of that) failure to maintain positive relations with literal maggots is arguably the pivotal proximate cause of his failure as a ruler and Rayuba’s subsequent devastation. He challenged his many sons to equal his own accomplishments, but did nothing to help them rise toward actual success in that.
No, democracy is built on the premise that people aren’t equal in power, but should act and be treated as if they are. It is fundamentally in opposition to the natural order, which is why it is held up as either ideal or an abomination, depending on your preferences.
If the Celestial Empire had even one good day, it was its fall.
Unfortunately this is also true of Hitler.
I mean, you can certainly think Solomon is one of the least bad of the Demiurge. But that’s rather missing the point, IMO. He still perpetuates the same rotten system as the other Demiurges. If anything, he was that systems most effective champion due to projecting material prosperity. At the expense of total oppression and dependance upon himself.
You can be authoritarian when you decide to change your nation, but your nation cannot be authoritarian if you want it to hold for long. Sadly, Demiurges has to learn it the hard way, with all their power and long life.
In other news… He DID transfered his Key, huh. And he’s still alive. Damn, he’s good at this at least.
And yes, White Chain, it’s amazing. Good ole food in your belly and drink on your table – even when everything is shit, they would make it a little bit better! Enjoy the world of humans.
Maybe he can chill and ponder royalty. I love that his beard is wragged and free of the prideful upkept. I hope hes chillling fishing and ballin.
he stopped seeking royalty and so attained it with little effort, and fish
The secret origin of the Fisher King.
He’s a king, not necessarily a fascist. Unlike fascists or truly brutal evil dictators, he actually cares about his people. In fact, he even viewed such massive responsibilities to them as a kind of mental cage. A fascist dictator, or a true tyrant, cares not for the people beyond that they HAVE people who are gullible and afraid and thus will follow orders.
David has true love for his kingdom and his people, and almost died to uphold a duty given to him by his subjects. That’s a fine king, and we can’t judge him using our modern concepts which only apply to elected officials – many of whom are fascists these days to begin with.
Our entire world and its history would be a joke in comparison to the lifespan of one of his beard hairs. We have one world, his kingdom spans 111,111 universes. Perhaps he is the greatest leader ever if he’s managed to keep those universes together and thriving, but simply is incompatible with our way of doing things.
A misreading, friend Preem. Recall the title of Solomon David.
Paternum.
Our Father.
There is no shortage of dictators, fascist and otherwise, who consider themselves the fathers of their nations, and under whose stewardship their children do perfectly well! All claim to be motivated by love for their people, and it would be foolishness to proclaim all such claims to be lies! But children become adults. And fathers become old. And the fault in all such aspirants to Royalty is the one Solomon David showed us in the moment we learned his Word.
The father who reduces his children’s existence to trying to please him, and who will not suffer them to learn from their mistakes and grow, damns both to an eternity of contemptuous enslavement. They will never grow beyond him. And he will never have an existence beyond disciplining them whenever they try to step beyond the bounds he has set.
There is love, between a Paternum and his people. But there is also acid contempt, and a rage that dare not speak its name for fear of consequence, that only grows with the passing of years. Until, in the twilight of all he cares for, his children reach out to strike him with all their force, because they and all they know have been sacrificed for the sake of the Father’s pride.
The promise of Paternum is that he will halt the turning of the Wheel.
And so it is that the Wheel breaks them.
A lot of dictators claim to care about their people in propaganda pieces meant to control and placate their victims. Thats not the same thing as them actually caring. Very few dictators ever remotely give the slightest hint of actually giving a damn based on their actions. Given his reaction to what happened to Rayuba it seems fair to say that he really did care despite his awful methods of showing it. Not that his good intentions did anything to lessen the suffering of those who were made to endure his means of showing that affection, mind you. It just makes him slightly more sympathetic and tragic a figure for the potential he had to do good if someone could have aligned his intent with proper action compared to your average scum bag dictator. There is just something inherently tragic about seeing a man who sincerely wants to do right but gets caught up in their personal hang ups/demons and makes a hash job of it to the point of bringing misery instead.
You mean like Fidel Castro who spent decades risking his life in poverty and violence to fight the cruel state that preceded him? I want to say he was a lawyer for the poor but that might be someone else.
Or maybe Mussolini who did much the same,
Or maybe Linen who fought to end feudalism, a thing worse than slavery. Not many plantation owners had slave butchering competitions.
Did you know Hitler was a true hero to his people before the war? He did great things. Things all knew needed to be done but that weren’t politically viable without centralized power.
After the war, many had to rectify that their loving fathers, husbands, and sons had committed, and sometimes quite enjoyed, sadism.
‘Evil’ is a myth. There are just broken people. Never met one who wasn’t broken somehow.
Finally somebody gets it. You have the best understanding here of solomons character yet. Way too many people here are super fixated on painting him as a stereotypical bad guy, its actually getting annoying.
Solomon may not be the most enlightened ruler around, but he is an *excellent* murderer.
I feel as if the Good Emperor Solomon may finally be realizing what the Masters who trained him truly meant to teach him.
I don’t think the Masters were right in the lesson they tried to teach him either, remember, violence is inevitable. Just tapping out of life when you have the power to do something isn’t the answer.
It should be noted that they didn’t do nothing, they specifically went out and murdered anyone outside of their order that was starting to gain knowledge of Ki Rata, on the basis that it was too dangerous.
I think they might have been on the right approach, just too small scale – the only appropriate usage of obscene power is to prevent the creation of obscene power that will be used for anything else.
Apart from that, don’t use the obscene power to tamper with anything.
Yes, the problem is that their approach had no principle, no philosophy to guide it. It was simply a rule without logic. “Nobody else should wield Ki Rata”, rather than something like “Nobody should use great power to harm or control others”. They focused only on the tool, rather than its use it was put to.
I’d worry that if they expanded too far beyond Ki Rata to people with too much power in general that they may well become one of those exact people/powers with too much power.
Really, Solomon himself isn’t too far from being an example of someone with great power trying to do things for a perceived “greater good”.
Based Solomon enjoyer. Checks both boxes: acknowledges he’s he’s a swole wicked cool daddy AND horrible fascist dictator
He tried to make the best empire he could to the best of his knowledge. It’s just that the method he chose was flawed. He even seemed to realize that it was flawed, which was the whole point of finding an heir. He’s diamond; changing his ways is impossible, so he needed someone else to fix the empire. But he couldn’t give the throne to someone weak, because in that world you need strength to back anything up. Until he could find someone to take over though, he couldn’t stop doing what he was doing, because abdicating would be far worse than anything else.
Well this is depressing, I started this comic yesterday and was hoping i had plenty of reading but I caught up and must endure the wait like everyone else😭
So the Tyrant yet lives. We shall likely see him again, I reckon. But, more importantly…
Eating and drinking is indeed awesome. Have you had bread? Gods above, what a treat.
I will say that it has been excellent business selling ice here, my still-delayed payment for the Tournament contract notwithstanding. With quality like ours, I am not surprised the first Angel bound in flesh instead of ash finds the food and drink of Throne worth consuming.
He is on the cover of this book. His face is hidden but it’s pretty obvious who it was meant to be
White Chain’s last line kind of makes it sound like she never drank anything before getting her new body, but I don’t think that’s true. Didn’t we see her make coffee (or was it tea?) for Allison in the first book?
I do believe she said at the time it was for friends and guests
Can’t argue with that. I love eating and drinking. Sleeping too!
Typical trans experience, tbh. Who doesn’t love eating and drinking in their chosen body?!
[It is, without a doubt, the very best thing one can do.]
Wouldn’t go back for love nor money.
Ha, I love the thought of White Chain becoming this stoic demiurge/super cop/peacekeeper and at the same time she’s in awe at all the little pleasures that come from having a physical body instead of one made of stone. How fun.
So, Solomon is ‘somewhere’ uh? I wonder if he had some kind of revelation, (kinda like Maya had after meeting with her master) and realized he had to step down, change his perspective on things… I wonder…
I mean, stepping down *is* what White Chain told him to do after “winning”
Why give it to Chain? Like, why does he give a shit? He didn’t before.
Or could it have just as easily been practically anyone lying there and he’s just kinda done
To be fair, most people couldn’t be lying there and most of the people who could are people he definitely wouldn’t, or couldn’t, give his key to. Deciding to give it to the first person he ran into pretty much also meant deciding to give it to White Chain.
What makes you say that? His whole tournament was, nominally, about finding an heir, even if he went about it bass akwards. She was also the only one able to match him and he repeatedly acknowledged her. To top it all off, her new form is clearly a result and reflection of her interactions with him, which should speak to his pride.
Solomon has a LOT of flaws, but I don’t think a lack of caring was ever one of them.
Her fleshly body seems to be partially formed from his drop of blood. In a way, she is his daughter. His lineages of sons failed to inherit from him, and he has always loved his daughters most. On top of that she did injure him, which was the requirement to inherit his power and kingdom.
I never thought of that! If the seed of White Chain’s body is the drop of Solomon’s blood she drew in the tournament, it totally explains why she looks like she could be his daughter. I really like that idea.
She was the person that beat his inheritance challenge so it makes sense. Plus, she told him to abdicate so it’s her problem now.
Earlier in the series, when talking with Zaid and during his match with White Chain, he did express a desire to move on from ruling. The only thing that kept him was fear of what would happen to his people if he abandoned his realm. Now, despite his presence and his ironclad rule, his kingdom was devastated. Maybe he finally realized the flaws in his approach. He couldn’t protect them from everything and also wasn’t able to build a kingdom that surpassed him. So he decided to pass on his power to the one person who appeared up to the challenge in even the slightest way.
Because White Chain was likely the only damn angel left who was actually doing her job, and a rare person who values rule of law. She understood, too the hypocrisy in her “brotherhood” in modern times.
White Chain wasn’t the best choice, she was the only choice that gives a shit about people, that laws be fair, that would-while not knowing if Alice was alive or not-use her grief and wonder to be a better guardian. Who understands that power is a goddamn trap.
She is the one who understands an adage:
“Boss is another word for ‘got a headache.'”
I expect he’s thought about giving his key to his successor millions of times. He is angry the world refuses to match his intentions but still carries through his part.
I‘ve got my fingers crossed that Solomon is slowly undergoing an opposite transformation of White Chain’s. A soul sundering it’s flesh to claim flaming wings.
Part of me really hopes at least one of the Seven finally realise the futility of their conquest and abandon their shackle-throne for something new. And with most of them dead and the few left enabling the Red God’s return, Solomon seems like the most likely.
My question is if he’s actually started on the path of royalty, in earnist or if he’s merely aping what he sees as Zoss’s path. Of course, there’s also the possibility that he’s just following through on his promises from the tournament.
Either way, I’m now looking forward to his inevitable appearance in much the same way I’m looking forward to seeing how Zoss will show up this chapter.
I think he’s just fucking sick of it at this point. He already was straight up not having a good time as emperor, seeing his homeworld razed twice is kind of an understandable moment of “you know what, fuck all of this actually”
Almost all of them have realised its futility. They’ve tried everything to abdicate short of actually giving away their power. Which Solomon here seems to finally understand he can just do.
So far, I think the only ones who are still drinking the kool aid are Gog Agog and Incubus. And the only reason Incubus has a key is that Maya gave up hers.
I believe it was mentioned, though, that Solomon was the *closest* to royalty? I’m unsure. But I think Kingfisher is right, him finally giving up his key might be the path.
Do we know why Gog Agog covets a key/power? I figure it’s her using power as a way to fill the void left by her hating herself or having no real friends.
I do believe that she holds the Key so that others do not look down upon her. Every Demiurge grows to resent their crown and see it for the cage it is. Each Demiurge is chained by their sin. Gog’s would be envy and vanity. To give up her key would be to admit she is lesser then the other keybarers, that they are right to look down upon her, that she cannot have what they have.
Just as Solomon was a prisoner of pride, Mottom of gluttony, Mammon of greed, Incubus by the lust for power, Jagganoth by his wrath, and Jadis by the true face of sloth: despair.
OMG, what a great day this is in the comments. The idea that Solomon will turn into an angel in some sort of weird balancing act with White Chain turning into a human is brilliant! I also read for the first time today the idea that White Chain’s new body is made from the drop of blood she drew from Solomon in the tournament. Both of these complimentary thoughts dropped my jaw.
Food helps. it just.. does.
Oh, drinking helps too. Have you drunk water today? Drink water today.
Then drink booze. Also helps.
Oh! Try this – booze poured over little chunks of frozen water! In the same container of liquids at one and the same time! So good!
Love seeing them catch up.
White Chain is SO right about eating and drinking. I’ve found that I simply can’t do without them.
As the 23rd Abbess of the Fading Flame once said,
“a true victory can be drinking clean water with no fear.”
Well, seeing at the particular word of god Salami Dave once bore, I guess
heheh
I guess uh, I guess you could say that
hehehihihih
I guess you could say that Diamond is
hihiheihihiahiahiah
that
DIAMOND IS UNBREAKABLE.
I mean it was only a couple of chapters ago that Allison was in the middle of a BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN.
YESSSS, JOJO CROSSOVER!!
Wait till she learns about sex, then.
Entirely possible she won’t be that into it, honestly! I certainly never have been. But it would certainly be nice if she discovered a new kind of pleasure from it, yes.
Allison just doesn’t give a fuck anymore, I love her so much. And is it just me, or is White Chain seriously hot? Considering she’s, you know, a comic character? We’re talking hawt with a capital HAW, here
Interesting. I guess White Chain is something akin to Solomon’s emissary now?
I assumed he was trapped in that sphere with Jagganoth, or disintegrated.
Preem George, you perhaps undersell the matter. You may recall the lord of the Middle Army, and the power he wears solely because its previous bearer cast it aside?
Behold 82 White Chain Returns From Emptiness To Subdue Evil. Bearer of the word “Diamond,” and God of the Seven Part World.
Fortunately for Preem Solomon, the long-delayed next step on the road to Royalty lies before him. A city, shattered by the war of the demiurges, its market squares empty and ashen.
There are no shortage of barrels for him to take up shop in.
I would like to see Solomon actually achieve Royalty. It would be a fitting punishment for him.
OMG I LOVE SEEING HER
Anyone remember when Death of the Endless was briefly that human named Didi and she said, “I love food. Food is so great. I mean, it’s so much more interesting than photosynthesis…”
The sight of Death enjoying a hot dog with everything on it restores a bit of one’s faith in something. Not humanity, obviously, but still.
I agree, White Chain.
It IS amazing. It’s quite the problem.
finally, Solomon David takes the tiniest step toward Royalty
Follow the adventures of our new protagonist in this comic’s Sequel:
“Walk Six Billion Steps”
Watch as Solomon David walks the road to Royalty, while learning important life lessons, making new weird friends, meeting long dead gods and trying to make sense of his family tree!
“Go then. I curse you with strength. Make of it what you will…”
Just after an apocalyptic death match wipes out Rayuba and threatens to unravel all of the Wheel.
*slow, sarcastic clap* Nice timing, David Solomon. Great handover, David Solomon. Way to start off the FNG, David Solomon.
Allison: Wait until you try smoking! ‘Cos… heh! – then you’ll be White Chain s-*mmmph!*
Cio: *claps hand over Allison’s mouth* (hisses) Do not be essayin’ so vilesome and horrorful a pun, ye poxmouth bit- …hey, I’m back! *looks herself over* *looks Allison over* *grabs Allison’s pipe* *very deep puff and slow exhale* I guess this means I’ll have to forgive ye… *deep puff* bumblebrains… ♥
>:=)>
Huh, this whole time I thought Salami was stuck in the Orb with Jagganoth
Trying to work out if his scene with White Chain is before or after the orb. It makes more sense if he gave her the key before pushing Jagganoth into the orb, and currently he’s in the orb with J; otherwise why is J not free and active? But the whole battle on Rayuba didn’t seem to last as long as a day.
After the orb. Dave’s arm wasn’t messed up like that before.
After the orb. White chain was unconscious for a day(ish), and it’s clear that the orb happened, like, moments after Alison and Cio fell into the water.
I thought that Solomon was in the orb with Jagganoth too, but.. I really like this twist. The Technique of Relief was taglined “Transmigration of Immortal Souls.” It seems, now, like it wasn’t a self-sacrifice, but instead involved a more fundamental change in Solomon’s perspective.
Also… Solomon appears to no longer have a key on this page. The purple appears to be in his arm following the orb. I’m sure that’s significant, somehow…?
I noticed the key, too! I’m guessing it was ‘in’ his hand, kinda like Zoss did with Allison but with more pomp.
Salami Dave still kicking, he is no longer a demiurge, but assuming his body is more or less intact, he IS still a master or Ki Rata. Dave redemption arc?
I forgot she’d never had food nor drink before.
But she has! First book, she brewed up a drink for Allison and had some herself.
I think it’s reasonable to assume from her reaction that its very different now she has a tongue and a stomach.
wow he actually gave it up (also yes food is good)
Step ladders? Where she is going she don’t need no step ladders!
I hope we get to see the return of 6 Juggernaut Star, just chilling right here. Maybe even enjoying tea.
It would be 7 Juggernaut at this point. The number before their name is their number of reincarnations.
considering he’s(she’s? their?)and wc’s talk in the mattom ark about the tea cup, that would probably be symbolic. I’m not half deep enough into the lore or media literate enough to figure out what it would be symbolic for, but it sure would be.
p.s sorry for the English, not my first language.
As much as I would love to see more of Juggernaut Star, given that they usually take… millenia in the void to reincarnate, I don’t think it’s likely we’ll see them again.
Pretty sure they weren’t truly killed- we see their armor fused together, but then a little red and white lightning escapes from her helmet. I figured that was supposed to be her teleporting back into the void. (King of Swords 9-128, btw)