I dunno, I think they should start with a noun and then add a description? So using the OP’s username, I suggest 69 Gleeful Youth Roars Unto the Heavens in a Raucous Expression of Joy?
Dunno; we’ve seen angel names like 22 Shake off the Sodden Words of the Faithless, 12 Questioning Fate, and 36 Will Not Give Ground to Sinners, so it’d seem that a noun is not mandatory.
this comic has become a straight white males personal fetishization material
it’s sad because it has cool concepts and world building but the portrayal of this sudden lesbian relationship is entirely and utterly problematic and very much seen through the male gaze
you do realize grandiose statements about how ‘Terrible and Problematique’ a work of fiction is and how you must cleanse your holy hands of it… don’t really do anything other than make you look like a moog in front of everybody, right? the only person you’re embarrassing right now is yourself. honestly i’ve been going around actual activist circles enough that your tone reads completely insincere and dare i say false.
as a male, with a gaze, it doesn’t strike me that way. if i were more grouchy, i might complain about pandering to homosexuals/forced diversity. but that would also be an extreme reaction. i’ll choose to just enjoy the comic without using it as a source of outrage to fuel my ego-fire.
I don’t think they actually meant it’s pandering, they were just playing devil’s advocate how you could use the logic of hate’s initial statement of this being a “sudden lesbian relationship” and twist it to be on the other end of the spectrum, even though it’s been brewing since Cio joined the gang that anyone with at least half a mind was able to see.
Why it’s a healthy relationship. Everything we’ve seen so far has been fine this is honestly tame compared to other comics ive read written by lesbians it’s also hornier than some I’ve read by lesbians. But like i feel as if ur just trying to stir shit up so like chill. also what sudden relationship?? This shits been teased since Alice-Un and Cio met. Abbadon has worked hard to make this comics veiw positive on sex and Gender and i doubt he’ll fuck it up anytime soon
Ok then im gonna be more direct n boring. What comics written by lesbians with mature content can you recommend, asking for a lesbian (me) because i’d like to look into them.
I’ve been in social activism (actually doing stuff, not just complaining on the internet and going to some marches) for a while, and the two groups of people who contribute absolutely nothing to the betterment of anything and I can never rely on are basically those two types of people. People with such closed minds they have headaches, and with such open minds their brains fell out of their ears…
Sorry, but the above was not actually an example of an open mind. In fact, the idea that this page is only appealing to straight white males is a pretty close-minded view of sexuality.
Maybe there are people “so open minded their brains fall out” but those people have little in common with SJWs and their overzealous ilk.
Forgive me for taking your other post seriously: you are so wrong, and that is such an offensive and marginalising statement it is completely laughable.
im wasting my time responding to an obvious troll as im like, responding in good faith but here i am anyways
‘sudden lesbian relationship’ i mean, its not like Cio hasnt read as wlw since chapter one, like when she expressed ire about allison having a boyfriend, when talking about being allisons unofficial biographer exaggerating her story, maybe throwing in a gf, and just very generally thrown off gay vibes. besides, if you’re so upset about fetish material, why didnt you leave when the battle nun showed off her chastity belt and boob spikes?
like i get being wary of gay content written by a presumably heterosexual, cisgender man, because it often is fetishistic, or actually queerbaiting, or someone dies after they get together, but abbadon seems to actually be making an attempt at writing a good story, that happens to have a wlw couple starring- or at least some women who are fwb- in addition to a character arc involving gender that I find incredibly relatable, and seems like hes willing to listen to his audience on shit- when its constructive, unlike this comment i wrote far too much in response to lmao
No, because Abbadon isn’t a boring transphobic jackass. That “joke”, if one can even call it as such, is the deadest horse since the one Death rode in on. Quit beating it.
The fact that there are fans who make attack helicopter jokes, however, and the state of this comment thread in general, do not exactly reflect well.
(also ‘hate’ is a really obvious troll and the fact that so few people even realize that also speaks volumes. to make it more clear to anyone else reading this: the person who made that comment does not believe the things that they are saying, and are acting as a caricature of people that commenter dislikes.)
complaining about the existence of lesbian relationship and framing it as feminism is still homophobic and therefore problematique in itself. begone homophobe, thou arn’t wanted here.
At the risk of sounding like I’m defending “hate” (which I’m not), the comic world seems quite full of homosexual relationships of late. To clarify; out of the last 5 graphic novels I’ve read (about 2 weeks worth), 3 of them have homosexual couples in them and in 2 of which they are main characters (the counts bump up a notch if we add in K6BD).
While I have nothing against it, it does seem very disproportionate, and does feel as if the comic world is pandering a bit.
As far as being this straight white male’s “personal fetishization material”… Not so much. I can’t say that I find Cio physically attractive ~ although I do really like the character. Sex with a spikey, scaley alien with carapace-like bits? Nah, I’m good, thanks.
for your 1st point, lets call that 6 series (at the least) with lgbt rep, versus how many that don’t? yeah, theres gay content out there, but theres so much more that isnt- and thats not addressing whether any of those series were produced by queer artists; its hardly pandering if theyre gay themselves.
and to the second, i say, more for us gay monsterfuckers lmao
Amen! lol
Also there’s a disproportionate amount of queer artists in webcomics because as a creative medium, it has a low barrier for entry and doesn’t have a historical, established dominance of straight white guys (eg Hollywood). So a big chunk of creators are queer or are close friends with other queer artists.
Not pandering, in my opinion, just bringing to life stories based on their lived experiences.
I would argue that comics DO have a historical dominance of straight white guys – at least here in America. I had a good laugh over the people that were offended by the white kid wearing a Black Panther sweater not long ago. Hellooo? Black Panther? Yeah, invented by a pair of white guys (straight as well, afaik).
But I do get where you are coming from. Most folks with a creative nature are (or at least seem to be) less prone to be judgemental in general ways such as the current topic.
Pander isn’t the right word. More like cliche’. “Oh all the most IN-teresting comics have gay main characters now. It’s just so trendy, don’t you think?”
I only cited the 6 most recent graphic novels that I’ve read because I didn’t want to go back TOO far (like I said, about 2 weeks of reading). Read a few more books over the weekend (several of the same or previously mentioned series’), adding two more homosexual mains to the list. One of which the main character wasn’t revealed as lesbian until book 3 in the series (or I just wasn’t paying attention early on).
So, of the last 12 graphic novels I’ve read (not counting K6BD), 6 have homosexual characters, mostly lesbian (presumably for “male interest”), and most are main characters (Walking Dead has gay characters, but they aren’t exactly main characters).
As far as writing about their “lived experiences’, I’m not sure how many gay comic writers have faced a zombie / virus appocalypse, or had an Elder God possess them, but I’m guessing it’s relatively few.
It just seems very cliche’ that so many of the comics out there seem to require lesbian main characters. Does it take a woman to love a strong female lead? Hmm… looking closer, it does seem that the only female lead (from recent reads) that wasn’t gay is Hit-Girl. But she’s still pretty young, and doesn’t have a boyfriend yet, so maybe in the future?
I should clarify a bit further: 9 different series (12 books) in the last 2 weeks. 4 have lesbian main characters, 1 has gay male and female secondary characters.
Maybe I’m reading too many comics with strong female leads? Darn white male fetishes! LOL!
And the pro-LGBT content is still less than a percent of what you could be reading that strongly advertises straight relationships, or even anti-LGBT content. There’s no sense in complaining. If you’re picking up mostly webcomics, well – this is where creatives feel safe to put out their works that don’t conform to the established rhetoric and ‘acceptable’ dogma. And creatives are, more often than not, the attacked/abused sort, which can also be a lot of folks who don’t fit the norm. Ergo there’s a lot of interplay between being an internet creative and being LGBT or one of those other things.
Ergo, complaining about it means you essentially built a house in a field of rainbows and wondered why everything is colorful outside your window.
Actually, I don’t tend to read webcomics. Discovered K6BD after the first print book came out.
Was I complaining? I thought it was more of a statement that lesbian leading women are cliche’. As if the comic world is saying “Strong woman? Oh, she must be gay.” It is so “in your face” that if it were all SWM’s doing the writing they would be called out for it. But because many of the writers / creators are from the LGBTQ community, it must be ok.
Seriously, I would not be suprised if the next incarnation of Wonder Woman featured her as a lesbian (I don’t read WW, so maybe this has already happened?). IMO, they are painting a picture that being a lesbian is the only way a woman could possibly be strong or heroic. Sure, that’s empowering for LGBTQ’s, but isn’t it equally degrading to Women in general?
Exactly this. So many other medium are controlled by corporate interests that won’t publish your stories unless they have straight white male leads, because according to their economic data based exclusively on the sales of comics with straight white male leads, only comics with straight white male leads sell. The webcomic scene has grown up without much of that gatekeeping, and the result’s been a greater amount of diversity. Diverse characters and diverse storytelling, because it turns out that a lot of those factors that keep down LGBTQ or minority representation also squash a lot of interesting ideas in general, so there’s a lot of webcomics like K6BD where those two things go hand-in-hand.
Shy Guy, did you not read the part where I said actual PRINT comics, from mainstream publishers? I’m not talking about webcomics. K6BD is the only webcomic I read. Your argument is not correct. Lesbian leads are apparently what sells comics these days.
1 out of 10 people identifies as LGBTQ+, and I’d estimate that a full 1 in 3 has had homosexual experiences or feelings. Making the main character queer is probably because of the compelling story of the “secret life” and personal shame and heavy stigma surrounding sexuality, but real life does involve queer people. If your comic has a cast with 20 characters, you need at least 2 Gays ™ to have accurate representation.
Chances are, the author has already made characters in certain webcomics who are gay, and just isn’t talking about it.
Throughout the history of American literature and art, we’ve been told that like 1 in 100000 people is a Homo. That’s not statistically true. There can be stories without any gay characters or gay things at all, but generally those will be because there are only like 3 characters in them or because of a biased set (e.g. a couples church retreat).
What’s fetishistic about this!? It’s not like Abbadon’s gonna follow this up with fifteen pages of Allison and Cio fucking! They’re characters, in a relationship! Just cuz Abbadon’s not a lesbian woman doesn’t mean he’s automatically a creepy perv for writing characters in a lesbian relationship. C’mon!
Ok…
1: There has been tension between these two for a while.
2: We just did a 1 year timeskip. A year of training and living together is plenty of time for a sexual relationship to develop.
Yeah, because ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENS IF IT’S OFFSCREEN!!!!!1111
There was a kiss, and then a year passed. A full year. Honestly, I’d like some flashbacks to flesh out the development from beginning to now, but if you expect people to take multiple years to go from interest to sex, my friend, *your* standards are antiquated.
You realize this type of reverse anti-vassal argument only serves to alienate and radicalize opinions. Sure you may think your doing ‘a service’ by inciting vitriolic reactions to opinions you obviously don’t have as a way to drum support for the opposite opinions you do hold, but you do it without subtly and only illustrate the empty Poe positions on both sides.
You failed. You failed in such a cringe way too. I find craven cowards like you and your ilk so amusing. It is nice to know there are still those out there that some how have the capability, despite their mental handicap, to type up a window into their mind’s eye of impotent self reflection of inner failure in such a concise way. Thank you. 🙂
Not really, because all the people exactly like the troll have completely failed to grasp that this is a troll, and are seizing on this as ‘proof’ of MUH EVIL SJWS. Like they always do
I’ve worked SJ work for years now and these people are real and serious about what they believe. To call them a troll is dismissive and does not go for bettering what the social justice community can look like in the future. We need to work on making ourselves better!
Let’s not get ahead of ourselves and act like it’s impossible to critique this from the viewpoint of it being possibly influenced by the male gaze. It isn’t. It really, really isn’t.
OP called it “personal fetishization material” and a “sudden lesbian relationship” that’s just not true. As for the male gaze- that’s what you get with a male author… I mean he’s never been in a lesbian relationship before, I don’t fault him too much. Besides, a handful of pages in a giant comic with recurring female characters is good considering Allison as a whole isn’t being portrayed through the male gaze.
But she has been, though. Read the last book. We had to endure seeing her shirt torn in just such a way that we received several nip-slips. This may seem minor, but considering the amount of thought Abaddon surely puts into each and every panel, it’s clearly a conscious choice. When put in combination with Cio’s overall design change during the heist and the horrible 0001 splash page that even he admitted was “too horny”…it doesn’t paint a pretty picture.
excuse me, it quite literally painted a pretty picture. stop being a fundamentalist prude.
“oh no! sexuality exists” “oh no! men are enjoying something of a sexual nature!” “oh no! we saw nipple!”
whatever happened to live and let live? why is the world filled with zealots who run around trying to ruin other people’s idea of a good time? it’s art for yisun’s sake, literally no one is being hurt by this.
“excuse me, it quite literally painted a pretty picture. stop being a fundamentalist prude.”
Nope! I’m going to critique everything straight men do, because it’s overwhelmingly gross. Sorry! If it makes you feel any better you have tons of sexist content to enjoy literally anywhere else.
Their relationship was anything but sudden, and if you missed that after reading for two years then you are dense indeed. In any case, go take your hate and have a relationship with it, m’kay? Bye now!
I have a lot of sympathy with this point of view. While their relationship has often been hinted to and was the object of ceasless ‘shipping’ in the comments, it was never properly built in the narrative. Along with a couple of time skips, this has produced a homesxual relationship devoid of any nuance or believable foundations. This is frustrating, and it does appear to pander to a certain objectifying male viewpoint. That said, I believe that Abbadon is attempting to present gender and sexuality in an overwhelmingly positive way. I don’t believe that the failure to create an nuanced and sensitive relationship between Allison and Cio reflects any boorishness on his part, but might rather indicate his awareness of the issue. As pointed out, Abaddon is likely a straight cis man with limited LGBTQ experience, so may not feel confident in tackling such a relationship in his writing. As such, the slightly hamfisted, cookie cutter, stereotypical relationship with time jumps and shaky foundations is what we get. I don’t think we should be too critical of someone who is attempting to present LGBTQ characters in a positive way, even if it is lacking greater understanding. It still feels like steps in the right direction to me.
Would now be a good time to mention that Abbadon has a sister who is a lesbian and is close friends with many other queer people?
Also what an utterly back-handed compliment. This is only the first page where it’s been confirmed that Allison and Cio are in a relationship and you (and others) are immediately assuming it’s going to be solely sexualized and male-gazey just because Allison is asking about sex?
I don’t agree that the relationship wasn’t built in the narrative. It was clear to me that Cio was into Allison from very early on. I think I first twigged to it somewhere around the drinking contest with Princess. Cio and Allison have been dancing around each other for almost the entire comic.
what exactly do you mean by ” a certain objectifying male viewpoint”? like what is the exact view point? cause to me it seems more like the second part of your post than this.
We won’t miss you. Here we have a healthy lesbian relationship instead of the strong female lead pining after her kind-of-skeezy male hookup, and you’re saying it’s the evils of men. As a steadfast member of the LGBT community: You SJW and third-wave feminazis caused us far more damage and exile than your small minds could ever compute, right when we were on the verge of acceptance. Leave now.
1.) This relationship was not “sudden”, it’s kind of been laid out since the beginning of the series that Allison never really felt she had a place among people back on earth, the only reason she ever hooked up with the shifty dude in the first place is because she didn’t want to be made fun of for being a virgin, and as we saw in the heist arc, she was never very good at introspection. Like…..when you look back on it, there’s a good chance she was written as a lesbian from the very beginning.
2.)In what way is it fetishistic??? It’s not at all tainted by the male gaze; there’s nothing here to say that this isn’t a lasting, genuine relationship (in fact, the end of the heist arc showed us it had great potential to be one), and nothing to say that a relationship with a man would be in any way better.
3.) As a lesbian who is LOVING these new pages so far, I feel that I have the utmost authority to say: “Kindly fuck off from whence ye came, foul pissant”
As a lesbian disaster myself I don’t know what you’re seeing in this b e c a u s e tiny binch demoness in glasses ravishing me sarcastically is exactly my kind of fantasy
Ok but…lol. They’ve saved each other’s lives countless times, Cio was writing fanfic about her since the beginning, Allison called Cio her best friend, etc. etc. etc. I know you’re trolling but it has to be said… this is one of the best portrayals of badass women in fiction I’ve ever read, written by a dude or not. Allison is written just like any character in an epic, and it’s feminist AF because it doesn’t even matter she’s a woman. If she was a dude you bet your ass he’d be banging one of his companions.
I shouldn’t, but I have to. I refer to the panel two pages ago with Allison sitting butt-naked in a bathtub reading a book and gobbling down ramen in the least male gaze way possible. Cio may be an absolute sex idol, but come ON
It seems like this is a game they play now. Cio doesn’t want to be too pushy since that is something the old her would of done (remember the comic right before the time jump when her and Allison shared a cig?) but she is also a demon who is likely ALWAYS dtf. I read the “wanna have sex?” In an almost exasperated tone, having in because CIO, being the minx that she is, would continue to not subtly push the subject. It seems like this thing happens often.
I like it. It feels fairly real, mundane and cute.
In Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism, the world of humans is known as “the land of plum trees”. Plus a dozen or so metaphysical references of similar significance. For Christian mystics an apple would be analogous object.
Confusion stems from the widespread nickname of “Indian Blackberry” given to that particular fruit despite it otherwise being known as “Java plum”, “Portuguese plum”, and “Malabar plum”.
More specifically, it’s gay if the feminine aspects of Cio are what attract Allison. Yet if the demon aspects are what attract Allison to Cio, then it isn’t gay, it’s closer to xenophilia.
At this point I’m honestly kinda expecting ‘Fuck’ to be some kind of Throne only board game, like monopoly but with gods instead of streets. Failing that, it’s a ruse so they can both write fanfiction in Alison’s room without fear of being discovered by their house-mates.
Ok, we need details. How does one have sex with a demon? We (I assume I can speak for all) know how the human body works, but how does it work for demons?
THE BLACK CHILDREN OF YS-AESMA WERE UNBOUND AND FORMLESS IN MIND AND BODY WHEN THE CONQUERING KING FIRST TORE INTO HEAVEN AND SLEW OUR BROTHERS. IT WAS FIRST LATER, THROUGH THE HANDS OF HIS DEMIURGES, THAT DEVILS WERE GRANTED MINDS AND BODIES. IT STANDS TO REASON THAT THEIR FORMS EMULATED THEIR CREATORS IN AT LEAST SOME WAYS, SO PHYSICAL COMPATIBILITY IS LIKELY LESS OF AN ISSUE.
Devils are made of formless chaos which really means “whatever’s most convenient at the moment” so I can’t imagine the process is too difficult or dissimilar to the purely human equivalent.
Well, there’s this flexible tail with a fuzzy tip, which is a highly erogenic zone. First, you tease it a bit, but when the ravaging begins, this tail can be applied in any position you (or the demon) prefer. Tomorrow, if you ask nice, I’ll tell you about the lips, the breasts, and the very unspeakable nether regions…
That’s in the same vein as “wait, how can two women have sex, they don’t have a p****”? Cio isn’t completely covered in shell, and if she has a sex drive she presumably has erogenous zones. And then yeah, there’s that possibly-prehensile tail with its furry tuft….
PLUM! That… was not the thing I expected, and that’s also great.
Fanservice strikes me much lesser, this sort of thing is definetely not my cup of tea. *pondered the simbolism of teacups in this comic and nodded* Yet anuway, KSBD is fucking great, be it with or without fucking,
Contemplate, my lovelies, the Grand Enemy That Is Called I, and the tale of the Lie of the Iron Plum.
YISUN is the finest of liars, and like all of that exalted sorority, he is wont to repeat his favorites from time to time.
52 Green Alpha Bathes in the Burning Sunlight, Vagrant Angel of the Knights Mendicant, Scholar Under the Seven Stars
Your words this day are particularly poignant. I thank you for the red art of lying words on the black background of the void on our behalf. May your days be long and your temperature never rise above melting point.
Preem Hayes.
Did you miss the transgender angel and Ciocie Cioelle literally writing self-insert fanfiction about her banging the Rising King.
We have always been here.
It’s probably safe to say that Allison is not exclusively lesbian, but rather bisexual. She was in a relationship with a guy, is now in a relationship with a presumably female demon.
Depending on demon morphology, she may have jumped into pansexual (or some theoretical term) territory.
Could be, and wouldn’t mind (heck, I’m Bi), but the vibe I got at the start, from her with the guy, was very “reluctant” tbh. Lotta Lesbians start off dating men, so keep your mind open to that too imo.
I thought it had been established already that Alison was never super into Zaid? Like, she was really only bedding him because she thought she needed to Lose Her Virginity; and now she wants to rescue him because it’s the right thing to do, but not because she’s crazy about him or anything.
My read is that but I could be wrong, and it could just be “He’s hot, but I don’t want sex w/ him”, which could in turn be demi tendencies of “I don’t want to fuck people I don’t actually like as people”
I would like a plum please. Please, ever since I announced that I was an elevator thief on public channels nobody has been bringing their groceries into my elevator. If only I could conjure plums out of thin air like Allison just did! I’m already going mad from the red blood putrefying my noble veins and suffering rotating palace withdrawal, starvation is the last thing I need!
Contemplate your suffering, and how it relates to the suffering you doubtlessly inflicted upon the less-fortunate in your role as Grand Dragon banker. Surely you see the connection?
Embrace your hunger, for it is true power. Unlike wealth, which can always be taken from you. Even Mammon could not stop the theft of his personal possessions.
Oh, and I hear there’s a traveling magician and sorcerer in town who leaves the streets littered with random fruits as a practical joke. Supposedly they taste quite good despite their throwaway nature. I’d look into it.
The Black Flame’s nature is fertility and hunger. Just a trifle less… limited in those aspects than ourselves. But we gave them faces, and we gave them names, and we have never required more than that to feel the embers of YIS rise within us.
I gotta say, as a gay person, I’m a tad skeeved that a male artist is depicting a lesbian relationship in this way, especially because the relationship is kinda starting off sexual and in a weirdly stilted and kinda porn dialoguey way? I mean sure I’ve said “wanna have sex?” as a way of starting out relationships, but I’m a real gay trans person, not a character controlled by a dude. And I’m not trying to accuse Abbadon of fetishizing, but I think he, and the readership should recognize that it kinda comes across that way to some real people who are a part of the group being depicted. I’m not a troll or trying to stir shit up, but I think this is something that should be addressed. I really like this comic and I’d hate so it descend into fetishizing fan service.
I agree, I think so far it’s pretty okay, but it’s a hard line to walk for him. As another gay trans person (though I obviously don’t represent all of us) I think it’s not gone too far as of yet. I think that if it doesn’t go to in depth with it, and there aren’t a lot of lingering panels of them making out or whatever, it will probably not end too badly.
So far Abbadon has been really good about gender, so I have pretty good trust that he won’t fetishize it. I personally hope for lots of wholesome gayness, since that’s a lot safer, and easier to make good, non-fetishy representation with.
I didn’t really get porn dialogue vibes so much as just Cio being an unsubtle demon, but I can definitely see how it could come across that way. It feels like it’s not so much a start of the relationship, but just that this is how they interact in their relationship.
THANK you. I was worried with the obvious troll comment above and the frankly tiring conversation I had on the last page that it would be impossible to make it clear that a man writing this relationship is going to be uncomfortable. And, well, it is! I wish Abaddon had put more thought into that, and he clearly is not. Even the edits he has made to previous distasteful pages don’t seem to have been made in good faith.
A lot of people in the comments assuming it’s the feminine aspects of Cio that are what attract Allison. It can’t be the demonic traits, because gods forbid Allison have a streak of xenophilia to her instead. Nope, it’s definitely the fact that Allison stated that she was attracted to Cio as a woman — oh wait, where was that again?
I doubt you get this riled up about a woman writing a story with a male MC or a LGBT+ person writing about a straight relationship. If you are going to act like this then how will the LGBT+ community and their media be normalized in society? Why treat them like they are off limits?
Men don’t have to write something for it to be normalized. Men don’t have to be ALLOWED or ENCOURAGED to write lesbians for them to be normalized. We don’t have to be written by men to be normalized. Stop. Just, stop.
I mean… yeah, they do. Not because LGBT+ relationships need the straight male stamp of approval, but because that’s what “normalization” means. If LGBT+ relationships have this special status where straight men—just straight men—aren’t encouraged or even allowed to right them, that’s not normalized.
It’s implied this isn’t their first rodeo, to be fair. And yet, I’ve started out relationships this way. There’s a strong bias among those who deem these interactions improbable.
Would you read this interaction as weird if it was a straight couple tho? I say this, also as a queer person, and I do not feel anything wrong with how Cio and Allison have been written so far.
Maybe that specific line would feel fetishy and out of the blue without the whole context of… you know.. Allison scheduling to lose her virginity.
Waitaminute. If a newbie like Allison can make a fruit, why can’t the B/W/L/itch Queen do it too so she could un-age forever without all the maiden sacrifices? And why is said queen ticked off so much? Was she in love with the husband-tree?
Anyhow, that’s enough of old topics. Back to all your really silly fanboi squabbling over a COMIC…
Establishing that she only felt like she HAD to to have a complete life, and that she was very uncomfortable with Zaid. While it’s great to also establish that she clearly was not attracted to men, it’s still very possible to have a critique based on this comic being written by a man.
I gotta disagree with this reasoning: it’s possible to be concerned that the writer may not put in the work required to faithfully depict a queer female relationship, because they are a straight male. And you can critique the substance of what he writes and depicts, but you cannot have a critique *based* upon his gender.
Infer what you like about how and why an artist fails or succeeds, but it should be based on their work: this panel either works because it’s authentic or fails because it’s inauthentic. That is what you critique.
If you feel uncomfortable about any man writing a queer female dynamic, then I get that; and it is, of course, entirely your prerogative. But that is not criticism, constructive or otherwise.
Personally, I’m always cautious, but I’ve come across several male writers who are very good at writing queer women. And I quite like the fact that Cio (in a nice bit of growth) is asking for Alison’s enthusiastic consent here; and Alison being awkward about expressing that reads as part of her character arc to me.
If you feel it is not criticism, then that is your opinion. I am not concerned, and I don’t really care if you’ve previously seen male authors who haven’t jumped the gun on fetishism.
A Critique is advice on how someone can do better, change something or otherwise improve the quality of their work. One cannot stop being a straight man to improve the quality of their work. This is gonna sound crazy, but you actually can’t judge people based off of immutable qualities of their person.
Like, there’s nothing wrong with worrying that this is going to be fetish fuel because, honestly, with the dynamic that’s been hinted at that’s entirely possible. But given that there’s been, thus far, exactly zero sex and like two kisses between them I’m not sure if I’d really call this fetishization. I feel like fetishization really does require like…actual sexualized content. So I can wait to see what happens next before I decide if this particular fwb situation between two women makes me uncomfortable or not based on the content that I am given, rather than screaming that an author who happens to be a dude has had the audacity to include people like me in his work. Tbh the comic has seemed, to me anyways, to put romantic ships and stuff on the backburner in favor of plot so unless the next five pages are a straight up sex scene I think I can deal with Alison having a potentially sexual relationship that’s explicitly acknowledged while she goes and resolves the plot. It seems more like a seasoning than a part of the meal, and I’m fine with that.
Turns out that normalizing the presence of queer people in general might involve non-queer persons talking about queer stuff or writing about imaginary queer people.
Please read the last book and a half and PLEASE take into account that, for the millionth time, Abaddon has ALREADY had to edit previous pages for being too gratuitously sexual in their depictions of women. I am not sure how many times I have had to state that he has already crossed the line on this subject. I know it is unlikely you have read my previous comments on the issue but…my goodness. It is exhausting having to repeat myself on something that should be plainly visible, honestly.
Again, it is a critique. Just because you don’t think it is, does not concern me. I will continue to give it.
OK, genuine question here, has Abbadon said that explicitly anywhere, and any pages where you can show us? I do know that he edits pages to fix things like colour and anatomy (and he’s admitted that anatomy isn’t his strong suit), but other than the 000001 page (which many people took as absurd more than titillating) I don’t recall any other page that would be considered sexualized or fetishistic.
I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ve been following this comic since before Chapter 1 was finished and I’ve never seen Abbadon say anything even remotely alluding to changing pages to be less sexy. Like I admit I don’t really get into the comment section often but I do usually read the little author blurbs.
But.
“That picture of a woman is to sexy” is a thing that can be fixed. The author can take that feedback, weigh in whether the aspect that you’re commenting on was intentional or not, and potentially change it. That is an actual critique.
When your entire critique is “You’re writing about lesbians when you’re a straight dude” It’s not a crique anymore. He can’t change anything to fix that. That’s not even a complaint about the actual content.
Like, I get it. I really do. As a queer woman myself I understand why this “straight dude writes about lesbians with benefits” thing is uncomfortable. But I’m not going to start decrying it until he starts cluttering his plot with gratuitous sex scenes. There have been titillating images throughout this comic -mostly of women, yes- but everything has been intentionally used to create a particular aesthetic atmosphere and tell a story. I never felt like I was shown Allison’s tits just to see her tits so I’m sorry but I don’t really see the fetishization that you do. Nudity =/= Sexualization. The most sexualized thing I’ve ever seen here is the BDSM nun and even then like, I’m actually into bondage and that was like to opposite of sexy to me.
If this aesthetic atmosphere is not for you, fair enough. If the author being a straight dude is enough to make you stop reading a thing you are entitled to your opinion.
But don’t pretend that “Ur a straight dude” is an actual, valid critique because it’s not. If your “critique” isn’t constructive in some way it’s just being a dick.
“When your entire critique is “You’re writing about lesbians when you’re a straight dude” It’s not a crique anymore. He can’t change anything to fix that.”
He can stop writing it. He could have not started to. He could have considered the implications of him writing two women attracted to each other as a man. He could have considered the implications of him having a time skip and then writing them raunchy while we miss any and all actual relationship build-up beyond the “I don’t date” and “The Kiss” pages.
Please don’t try to talk down to me just because you are also a woman who experiences same-sex attraction. Your standards may be lower. That isn’t my problem. You may not care about a straight man raunching up lesbians. That isn’t my problem. You may not like my critique. That is not my problem.
“but everything has been intentionally used to create a particular aesthetic atmosphere and tell a story”
I would like to know how any single author will create a story with diverse people and relationships if the author is restricted by their gender and sexuality.
Should men only write male characters? Should lesbian woman do not write male heterosexual characters? Should every story be written by a team comprised of members of every gender and sexuality depicted in the work? (and in the correct combination?)
Also, is the author obligated to give a relationship development before the characters have sex? There is people all over the spectrum that have sex without having a relationship why should he be obligated to have them build a relationship and show all of this building process to unlock your permission to show sexy times? And we do not even know if he will show anything explicit, there is a big possibility that he will not.
You opinion (which you insist that is a critique) is laughable. You can have it. You can shout it the loudest you can and spam it endlessly. It will not matter, what you ask is that the author do not create unless it meets your discriminatory and narrow standards. This will not do.
Yeah see, “he should stop writing” is not a constructive critique. If “he should stop writing” is how you feel then you are not obligated to return and keep reading nor is it really necessary to walk up to the author and basically tell them to shove it. You are criticizing but not all criticism is a critique. Sometimes you just have an opinion and choose to be a dick about it.
Furthermore I want media w wlw in it to be normalized to the point that I have the luxury of picking and choosing what I want to read to see myself reflected in it. Part of that fantasy becoming reality is, yes, writing about LGBT folks being a thing done by straight ppl. They can’t learn how to do that if they never get a chance to try. So I want straight dudes to write about lesbians they spent like 400 pages developing as ppl and watching them have organic interactions w each other that had nothing to do w sex.
I think you’ll find few people are inclined to respect your unconventional definition of the word “criticism”. In any case, it seems to be entirely about the author, and whether or not they have the right to their own work, rather than the work itself.
You do not have the authority to speak for anyone but yourself, and yet carry on as if anyone who disagrees with you is simply wrong and uneducated. You suggest people seek out women’s perspectives on the topic, while ignoring those of the women speaking right here. You’re not engaging in good faith, or even in the same language.
im so glad your solution to this “problem” is to stop having WLW representation in this story. that’s exactly what i want as a certified gay, LESS representation for me when I consume media! Wowzers!
I want queer rep in my stories. Of course this means letting straight people write them (not that we know Abaddon is straight, but he is also a real person so I’m not gonna theorize because that shits disrespectful) because /theres more of them than there are of us/, statistically I’ll get more good things to read if straight people rep us too. I see nothing wrong with anything Abaddon wrote or drew in the story so far. I’m actually amazed he’s not a wlw, the everything is THAT good!
If seeing organic wlw relationships bothers you that much because the author is not a wlw, just stop reading instead of demanding the representation be LESS inclusive. :/
(Also cio going I suppose I’ll ravish thee is fucking hilarious, not tittilating. Ravish. My god.)
I think it’s one thing to make a fruit, another to make a fruit that grants youth and life. Mottom’s fruits came from the combination of the nature of the person who became the tree (previously a powerful demiurge), plus the blood of the people the tree craved. Maybe there is another way (Solomon David hasn’t outwardly aged) but Mottom doesn’t seem to be aware of it. She hated her husband-tree but kept feeding it because she was scared to lose her power. When we last saw her, she had accepted that her empire will probably be over soon, leading to her to basically say “fuck it all” and and go into a reckless battle.
Maybe Allison will create something that heals or regenerates herself too, but this plum seems to be just the beginning for her.
Both Solomon David and Maya prevent aging with (no joke) “breathing exercises”. I feel like Abbadon is leading us on with that excuse, though, and there’ll be some reveal later.
I am glad I am not the only reader uncomfortable with this being written by a man (excluding the obvious troll comment and the horrible responses to it thus far). Hopefully it won’t get much worse than this, but of course I also said that when Abaddon was making sure Cio’s breasts were in every panel in the previous book, thinking it could not get worse when of course we were greeted with that awful 00001 splash page.
Well. Fingers crossed. I really do enjoy this comic and I would hate to see it degrade in the name of the male gaze, especially considering the overarching theme of dismantling misogyny.
The comment was rightfully shot down because it was a blatant attempt at concern trolling. And that you and those other commentators aren’t bringing any meaningful points except that Abbadon is a guy and thus every shot of the girls must be inherently sexualized and bad in some manner brings me to the conclusion that you and your ilk are also concern trolls.
Regardless, at least complete reading a comment before you respond. You can’t say there’s “no meaningful points” when there clearly are several, unless you are just willfully ignoring them.
And I find your concerns are at best specious and overly biased. From here it sounds more that you’re angry that there are two lesbian characters in a relationship being open about their sexuality just because they’re written by a man.
I think you have to take into account that a lot of the people who are skeeved out by this depiction are members of the group being depicted. Like, putting our reasons aside, if real lesbians don’t like a dude’s portrayal of lesbians then maybe theres an issue with the portrayal. And like, the reason we have an issue with a straight dude depicting us is because usually when they do they fetishize us. our judgment is based on experience.
And I’ve been given no real reason so far to think Abbadon is doing that now. And just so you know I’m a member of such groups as well, and so far, the only other queer people I’ve seen that took any issue are in this comment section.
While I agree that if there’s lesbians being upset over how they are depicted then they should be taken into consideration, I am also left wondering; why on Earth would you prioritize them when there’s plenty of us that simply don’t give a shit or that believe that it is well written????
Different people have different sensibilities after all (not ~lower standards~ like the other asshole over here said), so why prioritize one over the other? Why do you feel your opinion is more important just because you are offended? come on.
Thanks for writing all these comments out. I was also pretty uncomfortable about the bondage nun thing (the new page is still really horny…) and Allison’s shirt getting ripped up last chapter. I also feel like the author is dismissing concerns out of hand, which is frustrating considering it sounds like a lot of the people with reservations are wlw.
I do believe this romance subplot could turn out perfectly fine. I think Abbadon’s intentions here are genuinely good and I enjoyed the way Cio and Allison’s interactions up until now have been written; I personally think this page is cute and have cautious hope. To be honest, though, ever since I read Wisp’s review I’ve taken a step back and been like ah, hm about the whole piece.
Some of the responses to your comments are super unreasonable (I think two people called you a nazi? I’m…), hope you’re doing alright.
Like I commented to another person here, yeah, there’s plenty of queer people & women who are upset over some depictions made by Abbadon. But there’s also plenty that are not or that actually like how things are being done so far. (I absolutely adored the bondage nun for example.)
You want to be heard and that is reasonable but I don’t understand why should you be given a priority????????
Also I remember Wisp literally writing in their review that they did not bother to try to understand or even read the comic properly because it was overwhelming or whatever, so idk why you’d trust their review over your own perception.
A bit off topic for this page…but has anyone commented on how *similar* Alison and Incubus are starting to look to each other…cos it just hit me, while I was looking for a picture of Cio lighting a match with her tongue >.> !
Fuck, what’s gonna be next folks, shall we get offended for the oppressed masses–in all their myriad shapes and types and forms and kinks–as they yearn to be recognized and given the respect they are due as FICTIONAL PIECES WITHIN A BROADER WORKER OF FICTION?
If you prick them, do they not bleed, if you hurl invectives at them, do they not shudder and cringe?
I mean, the time our home-slice Abbadon has invested into bringing this cosmos to life makes me think perhaps if you stabbed a print version it might begin bleeding ink, but that is no more of a stretch than the idea that the two flirty pieces of his story on this page are being slighted in some way.
I get reflexive defense of those powerless to prevent being objectified, but when you’re trying to defend an actual object… you went too far.
Abbadon has probably noticed me lurking around here for the last half a decade and knows I love him and the things he do.
So if not him then am I supposed to be more respectful to the folks I was saying should knock off the “let’s get offended for these poor gay demons and godlings so we can talk shit about male gaze though we kinda forgot the beefcake Solomon from a chapter or so back heh, whoops” nonsense?
Nuh-uh, nope, fresh out of all that, maybe after they settle up and admit they overreacted we can look into it.
Again: why does it make sense to slot these interactions into the “lesbianism” folder when one half of the interaction is sleek, spiny, verging on fully insectoid, and only pretending to be a cute little woman?
Yeah, Cio had her lesbian-turn-on buttons pressed by Allison, but the things I find appealing about Cio aren’t the same things I find appealing about women generally.
“let’s get offended for these poor gay demons and godlings so we can talk shit about male gaze though we kinda forgot the beefcake Solomon from a chapter or so back heh, whoops”
If you’re going to compare men being shirtless to women being objectified you’ve already lost.
damn i wish for a world where discussion like this are obsolete because homosexual relationships are as normal as heterosexual are.
btw i love this comic to bits and chio is my favorite character
Homosexual relationships ARE as normal as heterosexual relationships (even though not everyone condones them). To me, it seems the debate is rather about the way it was presented. Some seem to feel it is “pandering” to the masses or “fetishistic” – which if you’ve read the comments from the last 6 years, the masses have been clamoring for exactly what Abbadon has finally given to us.
Some folks seem to think it is “inappropriate”(?) or maybe “insensitive”(?) for a non-gay writer to portray gay characters in this way.
Personally, I think this is where the story has been heading for years now. It is what it is.
This isn’t about you being a gay women. Nobody here cares about whats between your legs and what you munch on. Its about you being so close minded you think a man isn’t allowed to write a lesbian relationship. Its also about you making a bunch of early assumptions about the story even though nothing has really happened yet.
Get over yourself, really.
It’s a drag when the only speaking you do is to complain.
Yet again, progressives prove themselves to be the least progressive people in the room as they dictate who is allowed to write what, based on what is between their legs.
I’m genuinely saddened to see this much bullshit in the comments section over something I didn’t even register as remotely contentious.
Stop making enemies where there are none.
If we were only able to write stories about things about people, things and scenarios that are relevant to us as people, we’d have a fucking abysmally boring collection of books about people driving to work and bing watching netflix.
You don’t have to be a lesibian to write about a lesbian relationship, if you think that’s a pre requisite for the job, I’d argue you don’t understand what fiction is to begin with.
That derailed my train of thought. Two major reveals in a single page. The creation one is the more significant, especially since that’s a plum and plums figure in a lot of the history/mythology of this world.
♥ “A girl was lost in a garden, and she was hungry.
The girl played in her garden, and she was hungry.
She was too small to find the fruit,
So she grew bigger and more cunning.
The girl found the fruit, and she was hungry,
But she was too small to reach the fruit,
So she grew bigger and more cunning.
The girl plucked the fruit, and she was hungry,
But she was too small to bite the fruit,
So she grew bigger and more cunning.
And so she ate.
She was strong enough to take it,
And clever enough to find it.
Weep for the fruit, for it was was chased by a girl.
Weep for the fruit, for it is dead.
Weep for the tree, for it lost a child.
Weep for the garden, for it witnessed this.
Weep for the fruit, the tree and the garden,
For years they lived in fear of a girl.
You’ve been doing mostly nothing but snapping back against the people replying to you, so yea, I wouldn’t say you’re doing much to make people here reconsider.
Somebody check my math: a plum weighs ~2.3 oz, or 0.1437 lbs. 1 cubic foot of air weighs 0.0807 lbs. So assuming a straight mass to mass conversion, creating that plum used up ~1.78 cubic feet of air.
It’s a bit early to declare this romance as poorly written. This was obviously written as a surprise reveal.
Would not surprise me if later flashbacks show that they’ve been shacking up for weeks by this point- their manner sounds more like a not-quite-committed couple than this being the start of the relationship.
I don’t understand why people find it unexpected or surprising. Allison asked Cio out on a date a year ago, back at Yre. I mean the entire story of Yre was about Allison and Cio trying to push each other away, then ultimately coming back together.
So… a lot of people in the comments seem to think this relationship came out of nowhere. That it wasn’t built up over time. These people are incorrect. They are of course welcome to their opinions on whether or not it was built well, but it was built.
The book Allison is holding is Cio’s fanfiction. Cio threw the book away when she agreed to help Allison rob Yre. Allison kept it. That’s so straightforward it’s almost a trope: Allison loves Cio, at the very least as a friend. And Cio’s love for Allison was made obvious when she agreed to help Allison rob Yre. (It was obvious before that, but that’s probably the most concrete example.)
At Yre, Allison and Cio fell out because Allison put her quest over Cio’s desire to escape her old ways. This falling out culminated in the events of the linked page. Again, this is so straightforward it’s almost a trope: after trying to deny their feelings for each other, and realizing just how awful things are without each other, they both finally open up to each other.
Allison isn’t straight, as was made pretty clear in the first few pages, when she showed absolutely zero desire to have sex with her boyfriend. Allison being the self-repressive basket case she is, she never admitted even to herself that she might be queer. Her moment with Cio at Yre finally cracked that wall. Allison tried a few times to patch the wall back together (see previous statement, re: basketcase), but as they left Yre, Allison finally let herself feel what she was feeling, and asked Cio out on a date.
This relationship has been built, brick by brick, over the course of almost this entire comic. This comic has a lot going on, so it’s entirely possible to miss stuff like that. Heck, I certainly missed it my first readthrough. But it’s absolutely there.
when people are talking about “the 00001 splash page”, do they mean page which had the highest ranking servant of Mammon, who had that silly outfit consisting mostly of straps ?
Yes. Consider that that is her EDITED to be, quoting Abaddon, “less horny”. The previous outfit was even worse. Honestly the current panel isn’t that much better.
Yes, she was practically in underwear + a chastity belt. I don’t think Abaddon is aware that a chastity belt isn’t exactly something women put on themselves, it’s something a man would put on a woman to prevent their autonomy.
Like I am pretty sure he saw Fury Road and the dramatic scene where the first thing the “wives” do is break out of them…
I was under the impression that chastity belts were a far more recent invention than most people think. there’s a perception of things like, the knights on crusade would lock up their wives until their return, but there’s zero evidence, and it’s a fairly modern myth.
Some women apparently did wear such devices in like, the 16th-19th centuries, as protection from bandits while travelling, or working women using them as protection from employers. Or even as a political statement, such as some women who were in positions of influence – the king’s mother and so on.
In any case, prior to the invention of modern metallurgy, and the whole thing with the bdsm culture, there’s not a great deal of evidence of men controlling women with such things.
Art is more than its one-line verbal description. To me, she looks like what a self-flagellating woman who walks around all day wrapped in leather straps would actually look like: grimy, even grotesque. I can practically smell her. She’s got gaping wounds in her arms. She’s got nails hammered into her flesh, all over her body, and they’ve been there so long that she’s not even bleeding anymore.
She’s GROSS, man. Grody to the max. When I first saw that page, even the original version, I thought it was an interesting choice because it seemed to de-fetishize the fetishes it presented. To me, it does the same thing the rest of the comic strives to do: it takes trope-ish ideas and deconstructs them until they fall apart completely.
As I said, art is more than its one-line verbal description. If you insist on reducing it to its one-line verbal description, you’re choosing to no longer view art.
Also, I’m not saying it isn’t sexual. Sex is definitely a major part, probably the main part, of what that particular image is presenting. But I don’t see that it has any kind of mainstream sex appeal.
It’s like… if you took Roseanne Barr and dressed her in leather straps and a nun’s habit and a chastity belt, you’d have “a woman in plain BDSM gear that stuffs her cleavage out and leaves a lock hanging from her crotch.” But I don’t think many people would find it sexy. I don’t think many people would find it appealing in any way related to sex. It might be interesting, it might be confusing, it might even just be gross.
There’s a big difference between talking about sex and flatly appealing to “the prurient interest”, as the Miller test puts it. I honestly find it hard to believe that many people were interested in that image pruriently.
It didn’t register to me as fanservice or sexual.
Was a bit of a surprise, but not too unexpected, given the nature of most of the inhabitants of this setting as being pretty far out there in terms of what they consider appropriate to wear and so on.
I was more focused on that she apparently pulled a sword out of her head and was about to attempt a beatdown on one of the most powerful characters in the setting. I thought: “She’s certainly crazy enough to try”
Anyway, on the male gaze shit I’m absolutely certain that sex and innuendo would not have been the first things on Abaddom’s mind. Women in media are subjected to intense hypersexualization, lesbians in particular are rendered objects of voyeurism for male consumption. These pages could have been fine if Abaddon had not jumped immediately to “oh yeah…women having SEX”. Just weird.
I mean… it’s the fifth page of the fourth chapter of the fourth book, the 398th page overall. What’s so sudden about it? They’ve been building towards this since the drinking contest with Princess.
I agree. Very cliche’ / “trendy”. I understand that many writers are pro-LGBTQ, and I don’t have a problem with that. I don’t have a problem with them inserting it in the medium either. But it is definitely over-done.
“Yeah yeah, another lesbian couple.”
Does it move the story forward, or add to it in a meaningful way? I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
25 horny lesbian is lonely and takes what she can get
Horny Lesbian, I think you are missing the point of the discussion. Lesbians are currently very trendy in comics – both in print and online. Can’t open a comic these days without finding one. Hetero women are obviously too weak to make a good strong female lead.
Apollyon summed up the neccesity of the first scene nicely.
And as I said, we’ll have to wait and see how or if Allison’s tryst figures into the future of the story. Perhaps Zaid will see it as her having cheated on him? Perhaps he’ll be shown as a homophobe? Maybe there’ll be a big happy reunion with Allison, and AlliCio will just be a thing of the past. We’ll see!
Emily Brontë is a woman + she wrote a book = Wuthering Heights must be a romance.
Abbadon is a man + he writes a webcomic with lesbians in it = K6BD must be fetishistic.
Similar logic perhaps? Lets give him a chance before jumping to conclusions. Judge his work on its own merits, not based on its author’s gender. Also, can we not insult each other so much. This is a peaceful land….
And you would never allow them the opportunity to learn to do anything else. Your position seems to be that men are awful by nature, they can never be better, and the only thing to do about it is complain.
I think that we should give Abbadon an opportunity to prove himself. However many wlw are commenting to remind Abbadon to keep it somewhat reigned in. Personally I’m not to worried, but still a little wary, since it could easily turn into fetishism.
Ask yourself, in most straight representation is the second interaction between two characters as a couple that’s shown, is it one asking the other for sex? Don’t know, just food for thought.
Disliking you, spectator, is not the same as disliking all women everywhere. Noting that all you can do is complain is not the same as claiming that all women do is complain. You represent yourself, although it may be useful to you to pretend otherwise.
There is no point in arguing with you about art or literature because you not interested in that. Your sole interest is in power. You represent a totalitarian world view similar to National Socialism and Stalinism. Your objections to Abbadon’s works because of his gender ultimately comes from the Communist dogma that the individual is defined by and non-existent outside of their class background, just as the Nazis claimed that the individual is nothing aside from their place in the “racial community” Both Nazis and Communists would agree, with you, that art is nothing but politics by another name. There is, therefore, no possible common grounds to argue with you about art.
The only thing to be done is to point to your “critiques” as you call them and say; If you help advance the political agenda of people like this, you will give them control over your cultural and personal life. You cannot separate the radical activist from the commissar – or the block warden, or the Red Guard – because they are all the same person. Anyone who values literature and art must necessarily defend them from the slanders of vulgar power-worshipers such as yourself, spectator. What you represent is the reduction of art to agitprop slogans shouted over a loudspeaker, and what you are is the herald of is a new barbarism, a new Dark Age.
(The same thing, it should go without saying, applies to spectator’s opposite numbers on the “alt-right”, the MRA activists, modified only by their considerable stupidity. In general though, the modern day inheritors of the traditions of Lunacharsky and Goebbels, although they are just as malignant as their predecessors, represent in other respects a certain decline. Which we should take some comfort in. )
That interpretation would be consistent with your deluded position that you can serve as an authoritative proxy for all women.
However, my position, as I have clearly stated, is that you do not represent anyone but yourself. My criticism here is of you and you alone, based just on your behavior, and not any other property or group membership.
i mean, spectator, to be fair you literally in another comment thread above implied another lesbian woman is only okay with this rep because she has low standards& is used to being treated badly, so…
that’s a pretty garbage thing to say to a person who is okay with something you’re not. I’m a lesbian myself, and I’m fine with the page, because it’s the culmination of an absolutely insane sexual tension–plus, they’ve been shacked up for a year, so this is……MOST LIKELY not the first time they’ve had sex?
hell, my fiancee will just straight up be like “hey, wanna fuck?” so, like, it’s…definitely a thing that happens
Masked, that is certainly true most of the time for this comic which is why I usually do read them. The comments ever since this chapter started, though, have been mostly a disaster. I’m becoming concerned by the trend downward towards the standard internet comments.
damn this is nuts she really going to have casual sex with the devil girl she made out with in the last book as a woman who felt compelled to have sex with a man just to be normal at the beginning of the comic and has been going through a process of self discovery and intense training of her powers with said devil girl who has commitment issues and offered to have casual sex with her at the end of the last book. shit is wild. If you’re a man reading this you also suck
25 horny lesbian is lonely and takes what she can get
Hrmm… Makes me wonder what Zaid’s gonna think of his girlfriend having a girlfriend. Also makes me wonder: would this be considered cheating on her boyfriend?
Reckon it’s been a year though, Zaid is probably being well taken care of hisself, if ya get my meaning. Oooo, but what if he’s been a proper gentleman, waiting for his lady-love?
Hrmm… Read into their relationship whatever ya want, I reckon she liked him enough to call him her boyfriend and embark on an interdimensional quest at risk of life and limb in order to find him and bring him home. There must be / have been some sort of feelings there. We’ll have to wait and see how it all sorts out, won’t we.
IIRC, She picked him *because* he was a low-level predator -at least, her girlfriends warned her about him. But she wanted to lose her virginity, and I’d guess she’d already backed out of prior encounters. So she picked someone who was known for pushing. Which is all kinds of effed up, but we know she was pretty neurotic already.
She went back talking about rescuing him, but even then it sounded like an excuse. She’d heard the Call To Adventure, and that was that.
Hrmm… Sounds like a lot of guessing. Don’t recall her girlfriends warning her about him ~ other than to say he’s “a creeper”. Also don’t recall them meeting at a frat party.
Considering she was warned about Cio as well (Cio being a low-level predator and “known criminal”), where does that put Allison now? Reckon she’s still learning how to relationship properly, maybe.
Hrmm… I’d also add that it’s debatable on whether or not she likes men, since there don’t seem to be a lot of fellas around ~ other than Devils and Demi-Urges.
So, the next page isn’t here yet, so I post my brand-new theory here: on the next page Cio says something like “But anyway tha must _persuade_ me”, and so here comes practice in the White Art. Seems logical.
honestly like digging at this as fetishization or misogyny or lesbophobia given the story context and previous references to their physical relationship and emotional development in the last book is annoying but the number of nerd dudes who probably read Alfie and hate essjaydoubbleyous who are responding back is even worse. gamers should be purged
🙁 I never knew my love of a form of entertainment warrants my purging. I thought I was just enjoying my time and not bothering others. I guess I was wrong.
Fret not. It was a joke. This is just a time in the comments where it is hard to distinguish real opionions from people having a giggle.
Games are both silly and serious
25 horny lesbian is lonely and takes what she can get
HEY … Whats wrong with Alfie ?
Also this comic has had a strong feminist vibe and message since the beginning, I doubt the people you’re describing would’ve made it this far into it. People are just getting kinda heated and hyperbolic over… well over pretty much nothing, really. Myself included. I dunno.
KB6D is one of the greatest things on the internet Abbadon. It’s original, epic and intelligent.
On bad days, this a world I’m happy I can escape into.
Thank you!
A note on the conjuring of food: Whatever else one can produce out of thin air, being able to supply rations is one of the most important elements of leading an army.
i knew it. the double fakeout. we’ve been bamboozled again
And what a bamboozling it was!
Alright, time for me to Roar Unto the Heavens in a raucous Expression of Glee, because that’s the just the B e s t.
Roar Unto the Heavens in a Racuous Expression of Glee is a valid angel name, if you just put a number at the beginning.
69 Roar Unto the Heavens in a Racuous Expression of Glee
Life can be fine
That name.
I like it.
It is mine now.
And there was much rejoyce.
I dunno, I think they should start with a noun and then add a description? So using the OP’s username, I suggest 69 Gleeful Youth Roars Unto the Heavens in a Raucous Expression of Joy?
Dunno; we’ve seen angel names like 22 Shake off the Sodden Words of the Faithless, 12 Questioning Fate, and 36 Will Not Give Ground to Sinners, so it’d seem that a noun is not mandatory.
Besides what Arianod said, “Gleeful” isn’t a noun. It’s part of a noun phrase, yes, but that’s not what you said…
I like the new Allison body … I’ve fond memories of bedding an Allison once … No demonic intervention, fortunately.
You did whoopie with a #BuffGal? Lucky. Much envy.
Is that a plum then?
It’s purple, and not an apple.
So, it’s either a plum.
Or a purple ass-peach, a fruit native to Throne.
Looks like a plum, crunches like an apple.
A little apple. A little plum
It’s an Applum
<3
It’s obviously a plumple.
It might be. Or it could be Yisun in a clever and dashing disguise.
Isn’t everything Yisun in a clever and dashing disguise?
Even the bumbling ratty-ass fool in the clever and dashing disguise, yes.
It’s a chunk of iron convinced otherwise.
Tha came through for all of us on discord today. The expressions are lovely besides.
What is the discord server? I’ve been searching and haven’t been able to find it anywhere.
look into your heart and you will find the true answer
LOL that’s great
WE DID IT LADS
Ladies and gentlemen… we gottem.
We’ve been had lads. And the worst part is we enjoyed it from the start.
AND THEN THEY FUCKED
I understood that reference.
this comic has become a straight white males personal fetishization material
it’s sad because it has cool concepts and world building but the portrayal of this sudden lesbian relationship is entirely and utterly problematic and very much seen through the male gaze
guess after 2 years of reading i’m finally done
DON’T LET THE DOOR HIT YOUR ASS ON THE WAY OUT
you do realize grandiose statements about how ‘Terrible and Problematique’ a work of fiction is and how you must cleanse your holy hands of it… don’t really do anything other than make you look like a moog in front of everybody, right? the only person you’re embarrassing right now is yourself. honestly i’ve been going around actual activist circles enough that your tone reads completely insincere and dare i say false.
as a male, with a gaze, it doesn’t strike me that way. if i were more grouchy, i might complain about pandering to homosexuals/forced diversity. but that would also be an extreme reaction. i’ll choose to just enjoy the comic without using it as a source of outrage to fuel my ego-fire.
How is this “pandering”?and forced Diversity please its set in Throne for hells sake.
I don’t think they actually meant it’s pandering, they were just playing devil’s advocate how you could use the logic of hate’s initial statement of this being a “sudden lesbian relationship” and twist it to be on the other end of the spectrum, even though it’s been brewing since Cio joined the gang that anyone with at least half a mind was able to see.
Why it’s a healthy relationship. Everything we’ve seen so far has been fine this is honestly tame compared to other comics ive read written by lesbians it’s also hornier than some I’ve read by lesbians. But like i feel as if ur just trying to stir shit up so like chill. also what sudden relationship?? This shits been teased since Alice-Un and Cio met. Abbadon has worked hard to make this comics veiw positive on sex and Gender and i doubt he’ll fuck it up anytime soon
Can u give a hint to where those…. untame lesbian comics are?
I love you people.
That was a really gross comment though.
Ok then im gonna be more direct n boring. What comics written by lesbians with mature content can you recommend, asking for a lesbian (me) because i’d like to look into them.
The writer of this webcomic is a lesbian?
Last I was aware, Abbaddon was a dude.
I was under the impression Abbaddon was a cat.
you dunkasses abbadon is just a big ol’ eye
Taking a nick “hate” and then trolling the author with hatemail.
Subtle.
lmao how do you go about life getting so mad about shit all the time
two ladies gonna bone after a fuckload of sexual tension. *oh no*
fuck off with your puritanical retardation already.
Widdle babbu cannot reading comprehension and basic grasp of subtext.
StraightWhiteMan point of view: “OMG, they’re lesbian, DATZ WRONG!”
SJWpig point of view: “OMG, it’s straight white mails fetish comics, DATZ WRONG!”
…Lol ).
I’ve been in social activism (actually doing stuff, not just complaining on the internet and going to some marches) for a while, and the two groups of people who contribute absolutely nothing to the betterment of anything and I can never rely on are basically those two types of people. People with such closed minds they have headaches, and with such open minds their brains fell out of their ears…
Sorry, but the above was not actually an example of an open mind. In fact, the idea that this page is only appealing to straight white males is a pretty close-minded view of sexuality.
Maybe there are people “so open minded their brains fall out” but those people have little in common with SJWs and their overzealous ilk.
“the idea that this page is only appealing to straight white males is a pretty close-minded view of sexuality.”
Let’s not travel into self-delusion and pretend that most content of WLW isn’t geared towards men.
Forgive me for taking your other post seriously: you are so wrong, and that is such an offensive and marginalising statement it is completely laughable.
Thankfully you don’t seem to be very well read on the subject, or intelligent at all, so your opinion is completely worthless. Glad we had this talk!
Appeal to authority + ad hominem, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Very cute.
Touché
Lesbian point of view: “Yay! Devil girls need love toooooo!”
im wasting my time responding to an obvious troll as im like, responding in good faith but here i am anyways
‘sudden lesbian relationship’ i mean, its not like Cio hasnt read as wlw since chapter one, like when she expressed ire about allison having a boyfriend, when talking about being allisons unofficial biographer exaggerating her story, maybe throwing in a gf, and just very generally thrown off gay vibes. besides, if you’re so upset about fetish material, why didnt you leave when the battle nun showed off her chastity belt and boob spikes?
like i get being wary of gay content written by a presumably heterosexual, cisgender man, because it often is fetishistic, or actually queerbaiting, or someone dies after they get together, but abbadon seems to actually be making an attempt at writing a good story, that happens to have a wlw couple starring- or at least some women who are fwb- in addition to a character arc involving gender that I find incredibly relatable, and seems like hes willing to listen to his audience on shit- when its constructive, unlike this comment i wrote far too much in response to lmao
^THIS IS THE GOOD SHIT^
tbh I assumed abbadon was a lesbian. are they really a man?
you didn’t figure that out after that 00001 page?
Honestly until I heard his real name I assumed Abbadon was a queer trans lady.
For my part, I am convinced Abbadon identifies as an Attack Helicopter. How else to explain what is written; “Reach Heaven Through Violence.”
No, because Abbadon isn’t a boring transphobic jackass. That “joke”, if one can even call it as such, is the deadest horse since the one Death rode in on. Quit beating it.
The fact that there are fans who make attack helicopter jokes, however, and the state of this comment thread in general, do not exactly reflect well.
(also ‘hate’ is a really obvious troll and the fact that so few people even realize that also speaks volumes. to make it more clear to anyone else reading this: the person who made that comment does not believe the things that they are saying, and are acting as a caricature of people that commenter dislikes.)
complaining about the existence of lesbian relationship and framing it as feminism is still homophobic and therefore problematique in itself. begone homophobe, thou arn’t wanted here.
At the risk of sounding like I’m defending “hate” (which I’m not), the comic world seems quite full of homosexual relationships of late. To clarify; out of the last 5 graphic novels I’ve read (about 2 weeks worth), 3 of them have homosexual couples in them and in 2 of which they are main characters (the counts bump up a notch if we add in K6BD).
While I have nothing against it, it does seem very disproportionate, and does feel as if the comic world is pandering a bit.
As far as being this straight white male’s “personal fetishization material”… Not so much. I can’t say that I find Cio physically attractive ~ although I do really like the character. Sex with a spikey, scaley alien with carapace-like bits? Nah, I’m good, thanks.
for your 1st point, lets call that 6 series (at the least) with lgbt rep, versus how many that don’t? yeah, theres gay content out there, but theres so much more that isnt- and thats not addressing whether any of those series were produced by queer artists; its hardly pandering if theyre gay themselves.
and to the second, i say, more for us gay monsterfuckers lmao
Amen! lol
Also there’s a disproportionate amount of queer artists in webcomics because as a creative medium, it has a low barrier for entry and doesn’t have a historical, established dominance of straight white guys (eg Hollywood). So a big chunk of creators are queer or are close friends with other queer artists.
Not pandering, in my opinion, just bringing to life stories based on their lived experiences.
Also, just like Christian Rock, it gives you an immediate audience when you appeal to niche markets with free material like webcomics.
I would argue that comics DO have a historical dominance of straight white guys – at least here in America. I had a good laugh over the people that were offended by the white kid wearing a Black Panther sweater not long ago. Hellooo? Black Panther? Yeah, invented by a pair of white guys (straight as well, afaik).
But I do get where you are coming from. Most folks with a creative nature are (or at least seem to be) less prone to be judgemental in general ways such as the current topic.
Pander isn’t the right word. More like cliche’. “Oh all the most IN-teresting comics have gay main characters now. It’s just so trendy, don’t you think?”
I only cited the 6 most recent graphic novels that I’ve read because I didn’t want to go back TOO far (like I said, about 2 weeks of reading). Read a few more books over the weekend (several of the same or previously mentioned series’), adding two more homosexual mains to the list. One of which the main character wasn’t revealed as lesbian until book 3 in the series (or I just wasn’t paying attention early on).
So, of the last 12 graphic novels I’ve read (not counting K6BD), 6 have homosexual characters, mostly lesbian (presumably for “male interest”), and most are main characters (Walking Dead has gay characters, but they aren’t exactly main characters).
As far as writing about their “lived experiences’, I’m not sure how many gay comic writers have faced a zombie / virus appocalypse, or had an Elder God possess them, but I’m guessing it’s relatively few.
It just seems very cliche’ that so many of the comics out there seem to require lesbian main characters. Does it take a woman to love a strong female lead? Hmm… looking closer, it does seem that the only female lead (from recent reads) that wasn’t gay is Hit-Girl. But she’s still pretty young, and doesn’t have a boyfriend yet, so maybe in the future?
I should clarify a bit further: 9 different series (12 books) in the last 2 weeks. 4 have lesbian main characters, 1 has gay male and female secondary characters.
Maybe I’m reading too many comics with strong female leads? Darn white male fetishes! LOL!
And the pro-LGBT content is still less than a percent of what you could be reading that strongly advertises straight relationships, or even anti-LGBT content. There’s no sense in complaining. If you’re picking up mostly webcomics, well – this is where creatives feel safe to put out their works that don’t conform to the established rhetoric and ‘acceptable’ dogma. And creatives are, more often than not, the attacked/abused sort, which can also be a lot of folks who don’t fit the norm. Ergo there’s a lot of interplay between being an internet creative and being LGBT or one of those other things.
Ergo, complaining about it means you essentially built a house in a field of rainbows and wondered why everything is colorful outside your window.
Actually, I don’t tend to read webcomics. Discovered K6BD after the first print book came out.
Was I complaining? I thought it was more of a statement that lesbian leading women are cliche’. As if the comic world is saying “Strong woman? Oh, she must be gay.” It is so “in your face” that if it were all SWM’s doing the writing they would be called out for it. But because many of the writers / creators are from the LGBTQ community, it must be ok.
Seriously, I would not be suprised if the next incarnation of Wonder Woman featured her as a lesbian (I don’t read WW, so maybe this has already happened?). IMO, they are painting a picture that being a lesbian is the only way a woman could possibly be strong or heroic. Sure, that’s empowering for LGBTQ’s, but isn’t it equally degrading to Women in general?
Keep trying, brother. I’m sure you’ll be a master concern troll in no time at all.
19, go back to your “depths”. The adults are talking.
Exactly this. So many other medium are controlled by corporate interests that won’t publish your stories unless they have straight white male leads, because according to their economic data based exclusively on the sales of comics with straight white male leads, only comics with straight white male leads sell. The webcomic scene has grown up without much of that gatekeeping, and the result’s been a greater amount of diversity. Diverse characters and diverse storytelling, because it turns out that a lot of those factors that keep down LGBTQ or minority representation also squash a lot of interesting ideas in general, so there’s a lot of webcomics like K6BD where those two things go hand-in-hand.
Shy Guy, did you not read the part where I said actual PRINT comics, from mainstream publishers? I’m not talking about webcomics. K6BD is the only webcomic I read. Your argument is not correct. Lesbian leads are apparently what sells comics these days.
1 out of 10 people identifies as LGBTQ+, and I’d estimate that a full 1 in 3 has had homosexual experiences or feelings. Making the main character queer is probably because of the compelling story of the “secret life” and personal shame and heavy stigma surrounding sexuality, but real life does involve queer people. If your comic has a cast with 20 characters, you need at least 2 Gays ™ to have accurate representation.
Chances are, the author has already made characters in certain webcomics who are gay, and just isn’t talking about it.
Throughout the history of American literature and art, we’ve been told that like 1 in 100000 people is a Homo. That’s not statistically true. There can be stories without any gay characters or gay things at all, but generally those will be because there are only like 3 characters in them or because of a biased set (e.g. a couples church retreat).
Troll. Pretending to be offended and using “sjw” buzz-words to do it. Don’t give this “hate” dude the time of day.
Not a troll, I’ve seen this stuff before in the KSBD fanbase… and in real life…
What’s fetishistic about this!? It’s not like Abbadon’s gonna follow this up with fifteen pages of Allison and Cio fucking! They’re characters, in a relationship! Just cuz Abbadon’s not a lesbian woman doesn’t mean he’s automatically a creepy perv for writing characters in a lesbian relationship. C’mon!
Ok…
1: There has been tension between these two for a while.
2: We just did a 1 year timeskip. A year of training and living together is plenty of time for a sexual relationship to develop.
Yeah, because ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENS IF IT’S OFFSCREEN!!!!!1111
There was a kiss, and then a year passed. A full year. Honestly, I’d like some flashbacks to flesh out the development from beginning to now, but if you expect people to take multiple years to go from interest to sex, my friend, *your* standards are antiquated.
Not ours.
If this were really fetishistic it wouldn’t have taken 2 years
Go back under your bridge, little troll.
You realize this type of reverse anti-vassal argument only serves to alienate and radicalize opinions. Sure you may think your doing ‘a service’ by inciting vitriolic reactions to opinions you obviously don’t have as a way to drum support for the opposite opinions you do hold, but you do it without subtly and only illustrate the empty Poe positions on both sides.
You failed. You failed in such a cringe way too. I find craven cowards like you and your ilk so amusing. It is nice to know there are still those out there that some how have the capability, despite their mental handicap, to type up a window into their mind’s eye of impotent self reflection of inner failure in such a concise way. Thank you. 🙂
Not really, because all the people exactly like the troll have completely failed to grasp that this is a troll, and are seizing on this as ‘proof’ of MUH EVIL SJWS. Like they always do
Obvious anti-SJW troll appropriating social justice language to make the SJWs look bad is obvious.
Oh god you’re right
I’ve worked SJ work for years now and these people are real and serious about what they believe. To call them a troll is dismissive and does not go for bettering what the social justice community can look like in the future. We need to work on making ourselves better!
Let’s not get ahead of ourselves and act like it’s impossible to critique this from the viewpoint of it being possibly influenced by the male gaze. It isn’t. It really, really isn’t.
OP called it “personal fetishization material” and a “sudden lesbian relationship” that’s just not true. As for the male gaze- that’s what you get with a male author… I mean he’s never been in a lesbian relationship before, I don’t fault him too much. Besides, a handful of pages in a giant comic with recurring female characters is good considering Allison as a whole isn’t being portrayed through the male gaze.
But she has been, though. Read the last book. We had to endure seeing her shirt torn in just such a way that we received several nip-slips. This may seem minor, but considering the amount of thought Abaddon surely puts into each and every panel, it’s clearly a conscious choice. When put in combination with Cio’s overall design change during the heist and the horrible 0001 splash page that even he admitted was “too horny”…it doesn’t paint a pretty picture.
excuse me, it quite literally painted a pretty picture. stop being a fundamentalist prude.
“oh no! sexuality exists” “oh no! men are enjoying something of a sexual nature!” “oh no! we saw nipple!”
whatever happened to live and let live? why is the world filled with zealots who run around trying to ruin other people’s idea of a good time? it’s art for yisun’s sake, literally no one is being hurt by this.
“excuse me, it quite literally painted a pretty picture. stop being a fundamentalist prude.”
Nope! I’m going to critique everything straight men do, because it’s overwhelmingly gross. Sorry! If it makes you feel any better you have tons of sexist content to enjoy literally anywhere else.
are you actually a pepe loving neo-nazi? because every post of yours reads like a parody of SJWs.
wait what’s wrong with Cio’s design change?
You’re so bad at this.
hard agree
10/10 troll, post a few sentences of shitpost and gets the entire comment section to write paragraphs. I applaud you, now go away please.
I agree completely. Less Reality MORE FANTASY!
Don’t feed the troll – feed the horse.
Their relationship was anything but sudden, and if you missed that after reading for two years then you are dense indeed. In any case, go take your hate and have a relationship with it, m’kay? Bye now!
I have a lot of sympathy with this point of view. While their relationship has often been hinted to and was the object of ceasless ‘shipping’ in the comments, it was never properly built in the narrative. Along with a couple of time skips, this has produced a homesxual relationship devoid of any nuance or believable foundations. This is frustrating, and it does appear to pander to a certain objectifying male viewpoint. That said, I believe that Abbadon is attempting to present gender and sexuality in an overwhelmingly positive way. I don’t believe that the failure to create an nuanced and sensitive relationship between Allison and Cio reflects any boorishness on his part, but might rather indicate his awareness of the issue. As pointed out, Abaddon is likely a straight cis man with limited LGBTQ experience, so may not feel confident in tackling such a relationship in his writing. As such, the slightly hamfisted, cookie cutter, stereotypical relationship with time jumps and shaky foundations is what we get. I don’t think we should be too critical of someone who is attempting to present LGBTQ characters in a positive way, even if it is lacking greater understanding. It still feels like steps in the right direction to me.
Would now be a good time to mention that Abbadon has a sister who is a lesbian and is close friends with many other queer people?
Also what an utterly back-handed compliment. This is only the first page where it’s been confirmed that Allison and Cio are in a relationship and you (and others) are immediately assuming it’s going to be solely sexualized and male-gazey just because Allison is asking about sex?
“Would now be a good time to mention that Abbadon has a sister who is a lesbian and is close friends with many other queer people?”
Are we really going to do this. Really?
I don’t agree that the relationship wasn’t built in the narrative. It was clear to me that Cio was into Allison from very early on. I think I first twigged to it somewhere around the drinking contest with Princess. Cio and Allison have been dancing around each other for almost the entire comic.
what exactly do you mean by ” a certain objectifying male viewpoint”? like what is the exact view point? cause to me it seems more like the second part of your post than this.
This seems like the most reasonable and thoughtful position.
ok, bye felicia
We won’t miss you. Here we have a healthy lesbian relationship instead of the strong female lead pining after her kind-of-skeezy male hookup, and you’re saying it’s the evils of men. As a steadfast member of the LGBT community: You SJW and third-wave feminazis caused us far more damage and exile than your small minds could ever compute, right when we were on the verge of acceptance. Leave now.
1.) This relationship was not “sudden”, it’s kind of been laid out since the beginning of the series that Allison never really felt she had a place among people back on earth, the only reason she ever hooked up with the shifty dude in the first place is because she didn’t want to be made fun of for being a virgin, and as we saw in the heist arc, she was never very good at introspection. Like…..when you look back on it, there’s a good chance she was written as a lesbian from the very beginning.
2.)In what way is it fetishistic??? It’s not at all tainted by the male gaze; there’s nothing here to say that this isn’t a lasting, genuine relationship (in fact, the end of the heist arc showed us it had great potential to be one), and nothing to say that a relationship with a man would be in any way better.
3.) As a lesbian who is LOVING these new pages so far, I feel that I have the utmost authority to say: “Kindly fuck off from whence ye came, foul pissant”
As a lesbian disaster myself I don’t know what you’re seeing in this b e c a u s e tiny binch demoness in glasses ravishing me sarcastically is exactly my kind of fantasy
Congrats, this was bait of excellent quality.
Ok but…lol. They’ve saved each other’s lives countless times, Cio was writing fanfic about her since the beginning, Allison called Cio her best friend, etc. etc. etc. I know you’re trolling but it has to be said… this is one of the best portrayals of badass women in fiction I’ve ever read, written by a dude or not. Allison is written just like any character in an epic, and it’s feminist AF because it doesn’t even matter she’s a woman. If she was a dude you bet your ass he’d be banging one of his companions.
This is some grade A trolling right here.
I shouldn’t, but I have to. I refer to the panel two pages ago with Allison sitting butt-naked in a bathtub reading a book and gobbling down ramen in the least male gaze way possible. Cio may be an absolute sex idol, but come ON
Goodbye, you won’t be missed.
Congratulations on the sex having, Allison
They don’t have bones do they?
“All things can change form” and let’s leave it at that
Good job on Al-Yisun’s hands in panel one.
Can I get a HELL FUCKING YES brothers?
YASSS
Is there symbolism in that the fruit she made in panel 1 looks like a butt with a dildo?
Or am I reading to much into it in the end?
Consider, Preem Erik, the tale of YISUN and the iron plum.
lol says the girl who went straigt up “wanna have sex?”
It seems like this is a game they play now. Cio doesn’t want to be too pushy since that is something the old her would of done (remember the comic right before the time jump when her and Allison shared a cig?) but she is also a demon who is likely ALWAYS dtf. I read the “wanna have sex?” In an almost exasperated tone, having in because CIO, being the minx that she is, would continue to not subtly push the subject. It seems like this thing happens often.
I like it. It feels fairly real, mundane and cute.
In response to, “Go ahead, ask.”
Cio has been teasing us and Alice throughout this entire scene, and this is her acknoedging her handiwork.
That’s how I read it too ^^
Is that perhaps a plum, with a succulent skin only to those who once bore a key?
The YISUN is strong here.
I have to wonder about the plum. Are they just easier to create, maybe? Are plums to this comic what pumpkins are to Homestuck?
==> DEVOUR CHALLENGING PURPLE IRON PLUM
What plum?
In Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism, the world of humans is known as “the land of plum trees”. Plus a dozen or so metaphysical references of similar significance. For Christian mystics an apple would be analogous object.
Confusion stems from the widespread nickname of “Indian Blackberry” given to that particular fruit despite it otherwise being known as “Java plum”, “Portuguese plum”, and “Malabar plum”.
aaand not a page too soon!
Remember, girls, it’s not gay is she’s a demon!
Once your parents know you’re fucking a demon they wont even care what gender they are. Works like magic!
Guaranteed!
If *she’s* a demon, it’s definitely gay my dude 😉
(Sssssh. I know)
^^
More specifically, it’s gay if the feminine aspects of Cio are what attract Allison. Yet if the demon aspects are what attract Allison to Cio, then it isn’t gay, it’s closer to xenophilia.
I am down with both, for sure 🙂
Well that escalated quickly, how many layers of ruse are we on now?
at least 5 i think
At this point I’m honestly kinda expecting ‘Fuck’ to be some kind of Throne only board game, like monopoly but with gods instead of streets. Failing that, it’s a ruse so they can both write fanfiction in Alison’s room without fear of being discovered by their house-mates.
I meant ‘Sex’. Ah monopoly
In my Immortal words “AW YISS”
I have created
the plums
that weren’t in
the icebox
and which
you were probably
saving
for Armageddon
Forgive me
they were delicious
so divine
and so demonic
Well done
3 cheers!
Ok, we need details. How does one have sex with a demon? We (I assume I can speak for all) know how the human body works, but how does it work for demons?
Inquiring minds want to know.
THE BLACK CHILDREN OF YS-AESMA WERE UNBOUND AND FORMLESS IN MIND AND BODY WHEN THE CONQUERING KING FIRST TORE INTO HEAVEN AND SLEW OUR BROTHERS. IT WAS FIRST LATER, THROUGH THE HANDS OF HIS DEMIURGES, THAT DEVILS WERE GRANTED MINDS AND BODIES. IT STANDS TO REASON THAT THEIR FORMS EMULATED THEIR CREATORS IN AT LEAST SOME WAYS, SO PHYSICAL COMPATIBILITY IS LIKELY LESS OF AN ISSUE.
Devils are made of formless chaos which really means “whatever’s most convenient at the moment” so I can’t imagine the process is too difficult or dissimilar to the purely human equivalent.
How does one have sex with a demon, you ask?
Well, there’s this flexible tail with a fuzzy tip, which is a highly erogenic zone. First, you tease it a bit, but when the ravaging begins, this tail can be applied in any position you (or the demon) prefer. Tomorrow, if you ask nice, I’ll tell you about the lips, the breasts, and the very unspeakable nether regions…
That’s in the same vein as “wait, how can two women have sex, they don’t have a p****”? Cio isn’t completely covered in shell, and if she has a sex drive she presumably has erogenous zones. And then yeah, there’s that possibly-prehensile tail with its furry tuft….
That said, I remember the scene where Cio struck a match off her tongue. Allison might need that invulnerability….
PLUM! That… was not the thing I expected, and that’s also great.
Fanservice strikes me much lesser, this sort of thing is definetely not my cup of tea. *pondered the simbolism of teacups in this comic and nodded* Yet anuway, KSBD is fucking great, be it with or without fucking,
…but plums do not go “crunch.”
you’ve never had a proper plum, then, my friend
Contemplate, my lovelies, the Grand Enemy That Is Called I, and the tale of the Lie of the Iron Plum.
YISUN is the finest of liars, and like all of that exalted sorority, he is wont to repeat his favorites from time to time.
Mistress Cio might find her nails unsuitable for the task ahead.
Allison deflected a knife to the eye, I’m sure she’ll manage
It is worth noting that devils are known more for their tongues than their fingers, both in the metaphorical and literal sense.
You sure about that? They say idle hands are the devil’s workshop after all … 😉
Bittersweet and not the same
as fruit that holds you in the frame
but similar. What goes once came.
Your words this day are particularly poignant. I thank you for the red art of lying words on the black background of the void on our behalf. May your days be long and your temperature never rise above melting point.
K6BD wouldn’t be the same without the rhyming wax head. Book readers will be missing a significant portion of the experience.
print has limits
this is axiomatic
There it is. A lesbian. Now this comic is gonna get Tumblr famous and it’ll get ruined
Preem Hayes.
Did you miss the transgender angel and Ciocie Cioelle literally writing self-insert fanfiction about her banging the Rising King.
We have always been here.
It’s BEEN tumblr famous. The entire theme has been fighting against sexist norms. Sorry to break it to you.
We been knew 😉
It’s probably safe to say that Allison is not exclusively lesbian, but rather bisexual. She was in a relationship with a guy, is now in a relationship with a presumably female demon.
Depending on demon morphology, she may have jumped into pansexual (or some theoretical term) territory.
Could be, and wouldn’t mind (heck, I’m Bi), but the vibe I got at the start, from her with the guy, was very “reluctant” tbh. Lotta Lesbians start off dating men, so keep your mind open to that too imo.
I thought it had been established already that Alison was never super into Zaid? Like, she was really only bedding him because she thought she needed to Lose Her Virginity; and now she wants to rescue him because it’s the right thing to do, but not because she’s crazy about him or anything.
That was my read too; but there’s still some room for different interpretations I think.
My read is that but I could be wrong, and it could just be “He’s hot, but I don’t want sex w/ him”, which could in turn be demi tendencies of “I don’t want to fuck people I don’t actually like as people”
Well that UST resolved quickly.
THE LIE OF THE IRON PLUM
THEIR COMING WILL BE FOLLOWED BY ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHT BURNING STARS
That’s gonna be hell on the bedsheets!
Now just make it the youth-granting variety and Mottom will have no reason to be so hangry.
Fuck yeah, awesome. Love me some girl on girl.
Huh, I thought it was already implied that this was a thing between them. Guess I was reading into it too much.
*best* follow up to the last page, hahahahhah!
You got me. 😉
I would like a plum please. Please, ever since I announced that I was an elevator thief on public channels nobody has been bringing their groceries into my elevator. If only I could conjure plums out of thin air like Allison just did! I’m already going mad from the red blood putrefying my noble veins and suffering rotating palace withdrawal, starvation is the last thing I need!
Contemplate your suffering, and how it relates to the suffering you doubtlessly inflicted upon the less-fortunate in your role as Grand Dragon banker. Surely you see the connection?
Embrace your hunger, for it is true power. Unlike wealth, which can always be taken from you. Even Mammon could not stop the theft of his personal possessions.
Oh, and I hear there’s a traveling magician and sorcerer in town who leaves the streets littered with random fruits as a practical joke. Supposedly they taste quite good despite their throwaway nature. I’d look into it.
are demons precluded from love? the world is being reworked in the hands of the Rising King
The Black Flame’s nature is fertility and hunger. Just a trifle less… limited in those aspects than ourselves. But we gave them faces, and we gave them names, and we have never required more than that to feel the embers of YIS rise within us.
Cio’s had a thing for Alison from the start, if that’s what you’re asking…
The following pages will just be back and forward of fake-outs until it zooms out to Allison from Seeker of Thrones reading Cio’s book.
*joyous raptor screech*
Ah, to be young.
I am reminded of days long ago, when I had first met my life-partner.
One day, I shall return to them.
I just now realized the hair makes Cio look a lot like Shuten-Doji from Fate/Grand Order.
Fanfic writing girlfriend who makes serious offers to ravish you? That’s a pretty good catch, Allison.
THE SHIP HAS SAILED
She ate the apple of lust. or plum or whatever fruit it is.
I gotta say, as a gay person, I’m a tad skeeved that a male artist is depicting a lesbian relationship in this way, especially because the relationship is kinda starting off sexual and in a weirdly stilted and kinda porn dialoguey way? I mean sure I’ve said “wanna have sex?” as a way of starting out relationships, but I’m a real gay trans person, not a character controlled by a dude. And I’m not trying to accuse Abbadon of fetishizing, but I think he, and the readership should recognize that it kinda comes across that way to some real people who are a part of the group being depicted. I’m not a troll or trying to stir shit up, but I think this is something that should be addressed. I really like this comic and I’d hate so it descend into fetishizing fan service.
I agree, I think so far it’s pretty okay, but it’s a hard line to walk for him. As another gay trans person (though I obviously don’t represent all of us) I think it’s not gone too far as of yet. I think that if it doesn’t go to in depth with it, and there aren’t a lot of lingering panels of them making out or whatever, it will probably not end too badly.
So far Abbadon has been really good about gender, so I have pretty good trust that he won’t fetishize it. I personally hope for lots of wholesome gayness, since that’s a lot safer, and easier to make good, non-fetishy representation with.
I didn’t really get porn dialogue vibes so much as just Cio being an unsubtle demon, but I can definitely see how it could come across that way. It feels like it’s not so much a start of the relationship, but just that this is how they interact in their relationship.
THANK you. I was worried with the obvious troll comment above and the frankly tiring conversation I had on the last page that it would be impossible to make it clear that a man writing this relationship is going to be uncomfortable. And, well, it is! I wish Abaddon had put more thought into that, and he clearly is not. Even the edits he has made to previous distasteful pages don’t seem to have been made in good faith.
Its almost like its weird for people to have a “too sexy” complaint in a comic featuring things like torture, brutal murder and genocides. Oh well.
A lot of people in the comments assuming it’s the feminine aspects of Cio that are what attract Allison. It can’t be the demonic traits, because gods forbid Allison have a streak of xenophilia to her instead. Nope, it’s definitely the fact that Allison stated that she was attracted to Cio as a woman — oh wait, where was that again?
I doubt you get this riled up about a woman writing a story with a male MC or a LGBT+ person writing about a straight relationship. If you are going to act like this then how will the LGBT+ community and their media be normalized in society? Why treat them like they are off limits?
Men don’t have to write something for it to be normalized. Men don’t have to be ALLOWED or ENCOURAGED to write lesbians for them to be normalized. We don’t have to be written by men to be normalized. Stop. Just, stop.
I mean… yeah, they do. Not because LGBT+ relationships need the straight male stamp of approval, but because that’s what “normalization” means. If LGBT+ relationships have this special status where straight men—just straight men—aren’t encouraged or even allowed to right them, that’s not normalized.
Yes it is.
It literally is not. One group of people being treated differently is the literal opposite of normalization.
Eh? This isn’t the start of the relationship. Alison asked Cio out on a date a year ago, right after they escaped from the vault.
“as a way of starting out relationships”
It’s implied this isn’t their first rodeo, to be fair. And yet, I’ve started out relationships this way. There’s a strong bias among those who deem these interactions improbable.
Would you read this interaction as weird if it was a straight couple tho? I say this, also as a queer person, and I do not feel anything wrong with how Cio and Allison have been written so far.
Maybe that specific line would feel fetishy and out of the blue without the whole context of… you know.. Allison scheduling to lose her virginity.
Waitaminute. If a newbie like Allison can make a fruit, why can’t the B/W/L/itch Queen do it too so she could un-age forever without all the maiden sacrifices? And why is said queen ticked off so much? Was she in love with the husband-tree?
Anyhow, that’s enough of old topics. Back to all your really silly fanboi squabbling over a COMIC…
I suppose the whole whole de-aging effect is the harder thing to produce.
Just because you can make a plum doesn’t mean you can make a magic, immortality-granting plum.
Apparently a character just asking if she wants sex with her girlfriend is fan service now.
Did you people forget that the first page literally starts out with Allison attempting to lose her virginity with Zaid?
Establishing that she only felt like she HAD to to have a complete life, and that she was very uncomfortable with Zaid. While it’s great to also establish that she clearly was not attracted to men, it’s still very possible to have a critique based on this comic being written by a man.
I gotta disagree with this reasoning: it’s possible to be concerned that the writer may not put in the work required to faithfully depict a queer female relationship, because they are a straight male. And you can critique the substance of what he writes and depicts, but you cannot have a critique *based* upon his gender.
Infer what you like about how and why an artist fails or succeeds, but it should be based on their work: this panel either works because it’s authentic or fails because it’s inauthentic. That is what you critique.
If you feel uncomfortable about any man writing a queer female dynamic, then I get that; and it is, of course, entirely your prerogative. But that is not criticism, constructive or otherwise.
Personally, I’m always cautious, but I’ve come across several male writers who are very good at writing queer women. And I quite like the fact that Cio (in a nice bit of growth) is asking for Alison’s enthusiastic consent here; and Alison being awkward about expressing that reads as part of her character arc to me.
If you feel it is not criticism, then that is your opinion. I am not concerned, and I don’t really care if you’ve previously seen male authors who haven’t jumped the gun on fetishism.
It’s not tho. It’s not a critique.
A Critique is advice on how someone can do better, change something or otherwise improve the quality of their work. One cannot stop being a straight man to improve the quality of their work. This is gonna sound crazy, but you actually can’t judge people based off of immutable qualities of their person.
Like, there’s nothing wrong with worrying that this is going to be fetish fuel because, honestly, with the dynamic that’s been hinted at that’s entirely possible. But given that there’s been, thus far, exactly zero sex and like two kisses between them I’m not sure if I’d really call this fetishization. I feel like fetishization really does require like…actual sexualized content. So I can wait to see what happens next before I decide if this particular fwb situation between two women makes me uncomfortable or not based on the content that I am given, rather than screaming that an author who happens to be a dude has had the audacity to include people like me in his work. Tbh the comic has seemed, to me anyways, to put romantic ships and stuff on the backburner in favor of plot so unless the next five pages are a straight up sex scene I think I can deal with Alison having a potentially sexual relationship that’s explicitly acknowledged while she goes and resolves the plot. It seems more like a seasoning than a part of the meal, and I’m fine with that.
Turns out that normalizing the presence of queer people in general might involve non-queer persons talking about queer stuff or writing about imaginary queer people.
Please read the last book and a half and PLEASE take into account that, for the millionth time, Abaddon has ALREADY had to edit previous pages for being too gratuitously sexual in their depictions of women. I am not sure how many times I have had to state that he has already crossed the line on this subject. I know it is unlikely you have read my previous comments on the issue but…my goodness. It is exhausting having to repeat myself on something that should be plainly visible, honestly.
Again, it is a critique. Just because you don’t think it is, does not concern me. I will continue to give it.
OK, genuine question here, has Abbadon said that explicitly anywhere, and any pages where you can show us? I do know that he edits pages to fix things like colour and anatomy (and he’s admitted that anatomy isn’t his strong suit), but other than the 000001 page (which many people took as absurd more than titillating) I don’t recall any other page that would be considered sexualized or fetishistic.
I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ve been following this comic since before Chapter 1 was finished and I’ve never seen Abbadon say anything even remotely alluding to changing pages to be less sexy. Like I admit I don’t really get into the comment section often but I do usually read the little author blurbs.
But.
“That picture of a woman is to sexy” is a thing that can be fixed. The author can take that feedback, weigh in whether the aspect that you’re commenting on was intentional or not, and potentially change it. That is an actual critique.
When your entire critique is “You’re writing about lesbians when you’re a straight dude” It’s not a crique anymore. He can’t change anything to fix that. That’s not even a complaint about the actual content.
Like, I get it. I really do. As a queer woman myself I understand why this “straight dude writes about lesbians with benefits” thing is uncomfortable. But I’m not going to start decrying it until he starts cluttering his plot with gratuitous sex scenes. There have been titillating images throughout this comic -mostly of women, yes- but everything has been intentionally used to create a particular aesthetic atmosphere and tell a story. I never felt like I was shown Allison’s tits just to see her tits so I’m sorry but I don’t really see the fetishization that you do. Nudity =/= Sexualization. The most sexualized thing I’ve ever seen here is the BDSM nun and even then like, I’m actually into bondage and that was like to opposite of sexy to me.
If this aesthetic atmosphere is not for you, fair enough. If the author being a straight dude is enough to make you stop reading a thing you are entitled to your opinion.
But don’t pretend that “Ur a straight dude” is an actual, valid critique because it’s not. If your “critique” isn’t constructive in some way it’s just being a dick.
“When your entire critique is “You’re writing about lesbians when you’re a straight dude” It’s not a crique anymore. He can’t change anything to fix that.”
He can stop writing it. He could have not started to. He could have considered the implications of him writing two women attracted to each other as a man. He could have considered the implications of him having a time skip and then writing them raunchy while we miss any and all actual relationship build-up beyond the “I don’t date” and “The Kiss” pages.
Please don’t try to talk down to me just because you are also a woman who experiences same-sex attraction. Your standards may be lower. That isn’t my problem. You may not care about a straight man raunching up lesbians. That isn’t my problem. You may not like my critique. That is not my problem.
“but everything has been intentionally used to create a particular aesthetic atmosphere and tell a story”
Lol. Just…stop.
I would like to know how any single author will create a story with diverse people and relationships if the author is restricted by their gender and sexuality.
Should men only write male characters? Should lesbian woman do not write male heterosexual characters? Should every story be written by a team comprised of members of every gender and sexuality depicted in the work? (and in the correct combination?)
Also, is the author obligated to give a relationship development before the characters have sex? There is people all over the spectrum that have sex without having a relationship why should he be obligated to have them build a relationship and show all of this building process to unlock your permission to show sexy times? And we do not even know if he will show anything explicit, there is a big possibility that he will not.
You opinion (which you insist that is a critique) is laughable. You can have it. You can shout it the loudest you can and spam it endlessly. It will not matter, what you ask is that the author do not create unless it meets your discriminatory and narrow standards. This will not do.
It will have to do for now.
Yeah see, “he should stop writing” is not a constructive critique. If “he should stop writing” is how you feel then you are not obligated to return and keep reading nor is it really necessary to walk up to the author and basically tell them to shove it. You are criticizing but not all criticism is a critique. Sometimes you just have an opinion and choose to be a dick about it.
Furthermore I want media w wlw in it to be normalized to the point that I have the luxury of picking and choosing what I want to read to see myself reflected in it. Part of that fantasy becoming reality is, yes, writing about LGBT folks being a thing done by straight ppl. They can’t learn how to do that if they never get a chance to try. So I want straight dudes to write about lesbians they spent like 400 pages developing as ppl and watching them have organic interactions w each other that had nothing to do w sex.
I think you’ll find few people are inclined to respect your unconventional definition of the word “criticism”. In any case, it seems to be entirely about the author, and whether or not they have the right to their own work, rather than the work itself.
You do not have the authority to speak for anyone but yourself, and yet carry on as if anyone who disagrees with you is simply wrong and uneducated. You suggest people seek out women’s perspectives on the topic, while ignoring those of the women speaking right here. You’re not engaging in good faith, or even in the same language.
im so glad your solution to this “problem” is to stop having WLW representation in this story. that’s exactly what i want as a certified gay, LESS representation for me when I consume media! Wowzers!
I want queer rep in my stories. Of course this means letting straight people write them (not that we know Abaddon is straight, but he is also a real person so I’m not gonna theorize because that shits disrespectful) because /theres more of them than there are of us/, statistically I’ll get more good things to read if straight people rep us too. I see nothing wrong with anything Abaddon wrote or drew in the story so far. I’m actually amazed he’s not a wlw, the everything is THAT good!
If seeing organic wlw relationships bothers you that much because the author is not a wlw, just stop reading instead of demanding the representation be LESS inclusive. :/
(Also cio going I suppose I’ll ravish thee is fucking hilarious, not tittilating. Ravish. My god.)
Repeating yourself accomplishes nothing, when at no time have you backed up your assertions with proof, facts, or logic.
Exactly this <3
I think it’s one thing to make a fruit, another to make a fruit that grants youth and life. Mottom’s fruits came from the combination of the nature of the person who became the tree (previously a powerful demiurge), plus the blood of the people the tree craved. Maybe there is another way (Solomon David hasn’t outwardly aged) but Mottom doesn’t seem to be aware of it. She hated her husband-tree but kept feeding it because she was scared to lose her power. When we last saw her, she had accepted that her empire will probably be over soon, leading to her to basically say “fuck it all” and and go into a reckless battle.
Maybe Allison will create something that heals or regenerates herself too, but this plum seems to be just the beginning for her.
Both Solomon David and Maya prevent aging with (no joke) “breathing exercises”. I feel like Abbadon is leading us on with that excuse, though, and there’ll be some reveal later.
I’d assume that life extension is a standard goal of any mortal mage. The other classes, of course, don’t need to worry about it….
Y-you mean… uh… Hamon?
I am glad I am not the only reader uncomfortable with this being written by a man (excluding the obvious troll comment and the horrible responses to it thus far). Hopefully it won’t get much worse than this, but of course I also said that when Abaddon was making sure Cio’s breasts were in every panel in the previous book, thinking it could not get worse when of course we were greeted with that awful 00001 splash page.
Well. Fingers crossed. I really do enjoy this comic and I would hate to see it degrade in the name of the male gaze, especially considering the overarching theme of dismantling misogyny.
The comment was rightfully shot down because it was a blatant attempt at concern trolling. And that you and those other commentators aren’t bringing any meaningful points except that Abbadon is a guy and thus every shot of the girls must be inherently sexualized and bad in some manner brings me to the conclusion that you and your ilk are also concern trolls.
You can’t seriously be this deluded.
And you can’t be any more obvious.
Alright, I’ll just assume you’re the one trying to get a rise out of me then?
Regardless, at least complete reading a comment before you respond. You can’t say there’s “no meaningful points” when there clearly are several, unless you are just willfully ignoring them.
And I find your concerns are at best specious and overly biased. From here it sounds more that you’re angry that there are two lesbian characters in a relationship being open about their sexuality just because they’re written by a man.
I think you have to take into account that a lot of the people who are skeeved out by this depiction are members of the group being depicted. Like, putting our reasons aside, if real lesbians don’t like a dude’s portrayal of lesbians then maybe theres an issue with the portrayal. And like, the reason we have an issue with a straight dude depicting us is because usually when they do they fetishize us. our judgment is based on experience.
And I’ve been given no real reason so far to think Abbadon is doing that now. And just so you know I’m a member of such groups as well, and so far, the only other queer people I’ve seen that took any issue are in this comment section.
It’s a comic about angels and demons and magic and dead gods and the main character is fucking a demon… so what? Why is this an issue?
Please read our comments.
Good for you?
I’ve read your comments, good for me…?
While I agree that if there’s lesbians being upset over how they are depicted then they should be taken into consideration, I am also left wondering; why on Earth would you prioritize them when there’s plenty of us that simply don’t give a shit or that believe that it is well written????
Different people have different sensibilities after all (not ~lower standards~ like the other asshole over here said), so why prioritize one over the other? Why do you feel your opinion is more important just because you are offended? come on.
Thanks for writing all these comments out. I was also pretty uncomfortable about the bondage nun thing (the new page is still really horny…) and Allison’s shirt getting ripped up last chapter. I also feel like the author is dismissing concerns out of hand, which is frustrating considering it sounds like a lot of the people with reservations are wlw.
I do believe this romance subplot could turn out perfectly fine. I think Abbadon’s intentions here are genuinely good and I enjoyed the way Cio and Allison’s interactions up until now have been written; I personally think this page is cute and have cautious hope. To be honest, though, ever since I read Wisp’s review I’ve taken a step back and been like ah, hm about the whole piece.
Some of the responses to your comments are super unreasonable (I think two people called you a nazi? I’m…), hope you’re doing alright.
Like I commented to another person here, yeah, there’s plenty of queer people & women who are upset over some depictions made by Abbadon. But there’s also plenty that are not or that actually like how things are being done so far. (I absolutely adored the bondage nun for example.)
You want to be heard and that is reasonable but I don’t understand why should you be given a priority????????
Also I remember Wisp literally writing in their review that they did not bother to try to understand or even read the comic properly because it was overwhelming or whatever, so idk why you’d trust their review over your own perception.
A bit off topic for this page…but has anyone commented on how *similar* Alison and Incubus are starting to look to each other…cos it just hit me, while I was looking for a picture of Cio lighting a match with her tongue >.> !
Fuck, what’s gonna be next folks, shall we get offended for the oppressed masses–in all their myriad shapes and types and forms and kinks–as they yearn to be recognized and given the respect they are due as FICTIONAL PIECES WITHIN A BROADER WORKER OF FICTION?
If you prick them, do they not bleed, if you hurl invectives at them, do they not shudder and cringe?
I mean, the time our home-slice Abbadon has invested into bringing this cosmos to life makes me think perhaps if you stabbed a print version it might begin bleeding ink, but that is no more of a stretch than the idea that the two flirty pieces of his story on this page are being slighted in some way.
I get reflexive defense of those powerless to prevent being objectified, but when you’re trying to defend an actual object… you went too far.
Please take the effort to be a smidgen more respectful.
To who, exactly?
Abbadon has probably noticed me lurking around here for the last half a decade and knows I love him and the things he do.
So if not him then am I supposed to be more respectful to the folks I was saying should knock off the “let’s get offended for these poor gay demons and godlings so we can talk shit about male gaze though we kinda forgot the beefcake Solomon from a chapter or so back heh, whoops” nonsense?
Nuh-uh, nope, fresh out of all that, maybe after they settle up and admit they overreacted we can look into it.
men cannot be objectified or fetishized in a patriarchal society, please get a grip.
Hrrm, comment disappeared.
Again: why does it make sense to slot these interactions into the “lesbianism” folder when one half of the interaction is sleek, spiny, verging on fully insectoid, and only pretending to be a cute little woman?
Yeah, Cio had her lesbian-turn-on buttons pressed by Allison, but the things I find appealing about Cio aren’t the same things I find appealing about women generally.
You have to be joking, no one actually believes this shit, do they?
“let’s get offended for these poor gay demons and godlings so we can talk shit about male gaze though we kinda forgot the beefcake Solomon from a chapter or so back heh, whoops”
If you’re going to compare men being shirtless to women being objectified you’ve already lost.
One can only say this is an excellent story with delicious artistry and characters.
Same here, this scene seems misplace in the time line.
damn i wish for a world where discussion like this are obsolete because homosexual relationships are as normal as heterosexual are.
btw i love this comic to bits and chio is my favorite character
Yeah I just don’t get why it’s an issue, if I hadn’t scrolled to the comments I wouldn’t have known that it was.. weird
Homosexual relationships ARE as normal as heterosexual relationships (even though not everyone condones them). To me, it seems the debate is rather about the way it was presented. Some seem to feel it is “pandering” to the masses or “fetishistic” – which if you’ve read the comments from the last 6 years, the masses have been clamoring for exactly what Abbadon has finally given to us.
Some folks seem to think it is “inappropriate”(?) or maybe “insensitive”(?) for a non-gay writer to portray gay characters in this way.
Personally, I think this is where the story has been heading for years now. It is what it is.
And so begins the endless complaining. The endless, endless complaining.
It is such a drag to listen to gay women speak! Alas!
Get over yourself, really.
This isn’t about you being a gay women. Nobody here cares about whats between your legs and what you munch on. Its about you being so close minded you think a man isn’t allowed to write a lesbian relationship. Its also about you making a bunch of early assumptions about the story even though nothing has really happened yet.
Get over yourself, really.
It’s a drag when the only speaking you do is to complain.
Yet again, progressives prove themselves to be the least progressive people in the room as they dictate who is allowed to write what, based on what is between their legs.
I’m genuinely saddened to see this much bullshit in the comments section over something I didn’t even register as remotely contentious.
Stop making enemies where there are none.
If we were only able to write stories about things about people, things and scenarios that are relevant to us as people, we’d have a fucking abysmally boring collection of books about people driving to work and bing watching netflix.
You don’t have to be a lesibian to write about a lesbian relationship, if you think that’s a pre requisite for the job, I’d argue you don’t understand what fiction is to begin with.
Get off your high horse.
Literally the first page of the comic is a depiction of “not-sure-sex” and you guys are bitching about “lez-demon-sex”? Gimme a break guys
That derailed my train of thought. Two major reveals in a single page. The creation one is the more significant, especially since that’s a plum and plums figure in a lot of the history/mythology of this world.
This discussion board is quite entertaining. I’ll just see how this pays out…
Nice plum.
♥ “A girl was lost in a garden, and she was hungry.
The girl played in her garden, and she was hungry.
She was too small to find the fruit,
So she grew bigger and more cunning.
The girl found the fruit, and she was hungry,
But she was too small to reach the fruit,
So she grew bigger and more cunning.
The girl plucked the fruit, and she was hungry,
But she was too small to bite the fruit,
So she grew bigger and more cunning.
And so she ate.
She was strong enough to take it,
And clever enough to find it.
Weep for the fruit, for it was was chased by a girl.
Weep for the fruit, for it is dead.
Weep for the tree, for it lost a child.
Weep for the garden, for it witnessed this.
Weep for the fruit, the tree and the garden,
For years they lived in fear of a girl.
She will be hungry again.”
Twentythird student of Bagoret – FBC 040
And so begins the endless, endless complaining…of women being worried about fetishism in a comic they enjoy.
We just can’t win.
You’ve been doing mostly nothing but snapping back against the people replying to you, so yea, I wouldn’t say you’re doing much to make people here reconsider.
What do you call your own responses, lol.
I’m not the one arguing with everyone how Abbadon is hugely problematic just for being a dude depicting a lesbian relationship.
I am stating my critique. Deal with it.
We’d all rather not. You’re extremely tiresome and your only purpose here is to get a rise out of people.
tfw u believe u speak for all women who read this comic tho (seriously, pal???)
Somebody check my math: a plum weighs ~2.3 oz, or 0.1437 lbs. 1 cubic foot of air weighs 0.0807 lbs. So assuming a straight mass to mass conversion, creating that plum used up ~1.78 cubic feet of air.
Now this was unexpected
It’s a bit early to declare this romance as poorly written. This was obviously written as a surprise reveal.
Would not surprise me if later flashbacks show that they’ve been shacking up for weeks by this point- their manner sounds more like a not-quite-committed couple than this being the start of the relationship.
I don’t understand why people find it unexpected or surprising. Allison asked Cio out on a date a year ago, back at Yre. I mean the entire story of Yre was about Allison and Cio trying to push each other away, then ultimately coming back together.
So… a lot of people in the comments seem to think this relationship came out of nowhere. That it wasn’t built up over time. These people are incorrect. They are of course welcome to their opinions on whether or not it was built well, but it was built.
There is a lot of evidence for this, but most of it can be summed up by this page: https://killsixbilliondemons.com/comic/seeker-of-thrones-9-114/
The book Allison is holding is Cio’s fanfiction. Cio threw the book away when she agreed to help Allison rob Yre. Allison kept it. That’s so straightforward it’s almost a trope: Allison loves Cio, at the very least as a friend. And Cio’s love for Allison was made obvious when she agreed to help Allison rob Yre. (It was obvious before that, but that’s probably the most concrete example.)
At Yre, Allison and Cio fell out because Allison put her quest over Cio’s desire to escape her old ways. This falling out culminated in the events of the linked page. Again, this is so straightforward it’s almost a trope: after trying to deny their feelings for each other, and realizing just how awful things are without each other, they both finally open up to each other.
Allison isn’t straight, as was made pretty clear in the first few pages, when she showed absolutely zero desire to have sex with her boyfriend. Allison being the self-repressive basket case she is, she never admitted even to herself that she might be queer. Her moment with Cio at Yre finally cracked that wall. Allison tried a few times to patch the wall back together (see previous statement, re: basketcase), but as they left Yre, Allison finally let herself feel what she was feeling, and asked Cio out on a date.
This relationship has been built, brick by brick, over the course of almost this entire comic. This comic has a lot going on, so it’s entirely possible to miss stuff like that. Heck, I certainly missed it my first readthrough. But it’s absolutely there.
when people are talking about “the 00001 splash page”, do they mean page which had the highest ranking servant of Mammon, who had that silly outfit consisting mostly of straps ?
Yes. Consider that that is her EDITED to be, quoting Abaddon, “less horny”. The previous outfit was even worse. Honestly the current panel isn’t that much better.
Oh, I looked it up, Seeker of Thrones 10-126, right ? P.sure the version I saw before had more visible skin/fewer straps.
Yes, she was practically in underwear + a chastity belt. I don’t think Abaddon is aware that a chastity belt isn’t exactly something women put on themselves, it’s something a man would put on a woman to prevent their autonomy.
Like I am pretty sure he saw Fury Road and the dramatic scene where the first thing the “wives” do is break out of them…
I was under the impression that chastity belts were a far more recent invention than most people think. there’s a perception of things like, the knights on crusade would lock up their wives until their return, but there’s zero evidence, and it’s a fairly modern myth.
Some women apparently did wear such devices in like, the 16th-19th centuries, as protection from bandits while travelling, or working women using them as protection from employers. Or even as a political statement, such as some women who were in positions of influence – the king’s mother and so on.
In any case, prior to the invention of modern metallurgy, and the whole thing with the bdsm culture, there’s not a great deal of evidence of men controlling women with such things.
but that’s just a tangent.
Wait, people viewed that as some kind of fanservice? No accounting for taste, I guess.
Viewing a woman in BDSM nun gear as fanservice isn’t exactly stretching.
Art is more than its one-line verbal description. To me, she looks like what a self-flagellating woman who walks around all day wrapped in leather straps would actually look like: grimy, even grotesque. I can practically smell her. She’s got gaping wounds in her arms. She’s got nails hammered into her flesh, all over her body, and they’ve been there so long that she’s not even bleeding anymore.
She’s GROSS, man. Grody to the max. When I first saw that page, even the original version, I thought it was an interesting choice because it seemed to de-fetishize the fetishes it presented. To me, it does the same thing the rest of the comic strives to do: it takes trope-ish ideas and deconstructs them until they fall apart completely.
Well…that’s certainly one way to interpret a woman in BDSM gear.
That’s…certainly one way to view a woman in plain BDSM gear that stuffs her cleavage out and leaves a lock hanging from her crotch.
As I said, art is more than its one-line verbal description. If you insist on reducing it to its one-line verbal description, you’re choosing to no longer view art.
Come on. I am not going to view probably the worst panel in this comic as “art” because somehow you don’t think it was sexual.
I’m not telling you that you have to view it as art. I just don’t think anyone needs you casting aspersions on those who do.
Also, I’m not saying it isn’t sexual. Sex is definitely a major part, probably the main part, of what that particular image is presenting. But I don’t see that it has any kind of mainstream sex appeal.
It’s like… if you took Roseanne Barr and dressed her in leather straps and a nun’s habit and a chastity belt, you’d have “a woman in plain BDSM gear that stuffs her cleavage out and leaves a lock hanging from her crotch.” But I don’t think many people would find it sexy. I don’t think many people would find it appealing in any way related to sex. It might be interesting, it might be confusing, it might even just be gross.
There’s a big difference between talking about sex and flatly appealing to “the prurient interest”, as the Miller test puts it. I honestly find it hard to believe that many people were interested in that image pruriently.
It didn’t register to me as fanservice or sexual.
Was a bit of a surprise, but not too unexpected, given the nature of most of the inhabitants of this setting as being pretty far out there in terms of what they consider appropriate to wear and so on.
I was more focused on that she apparently pulled a sword out of her head and was about to attempt a beatdown on one of the most powerful characters in the setting. I thought: “She’s certainly crazy enough to try”
Yes. It was very controversial at the time due to the perception that it was BDSM fanservice.
This is good, and wholesome, and approved by the Church of Pie. (43rd most popular religion in Throne.)
Anyway, on the male gaze shit I’m absolutely certain that sex and innuendo would not have been the first things on Abaddom’s mind. Women in media are subjected to intense hypersexualization, lesbians in particular are rendered objects of voyeurism for male consumption. These pages could have been fine if Abaddon had not jumped immediately to “oh yeah…women having SEX”. Just weird.
*would not have been the first thing on abaddon’ mond if it was two gay men
I mean… it’s the fifth page of the fourth chapter of the fourth book, the 398th page overall. What’s so sudden about it? They’ve been building towards this since the drinking contest with Princess.
Hmmm… I’m disappointed. It seems that nearly every strong female protagonist these days HAS to be a lesbian or at least bi… Oh well.
I agree. Very cliche’ / “trendy”. I understand that many writers are pro-LGBTQ, and I don’t have a problem with that. I don’t have a problem with them inserting it in the medium either. But it is definitely over-done.
“Yeah yeah, another lesbian couple.”
Does it move the story forward, or add to it in a meaningful way? I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
literally the first scene in the comic is Allison being socially compelled into sex with a man doesn’t add to the story or move it forward my ass
Allison wouldn’t have gone back into Hell if she wasn’t with Zaid at the moment and didn’t care for him, so it was a somewhat necessary.
Horny Lesbian, I think you are missing the point of the discussion. Lesbians are currently very trendy in comics – both in print and online. Can’t open a comic these days without finding one. Hetero women are obviously too weak to make a good strong female lead.
Apollyon summed up the neccesity of the first scene nicely.
And as I said, we’ll have to wait and see how or if Allison’s tryst figures into the future of the story. Perhaps Zaid will see it as her having cheated on him? Perhaps he’ll be shown as a homophobe? Maybe there’ll be a big happy reunion with Allison, and AlliCio will just be a thing of the past. We’ll see!
Cry me a river, dude.
*sees your name “Holy Shit”
Troll elsewhere, “dude”.
Have you considered that lesbians might be “trendy” in comics because queer women are one of the fastest growing comic reading demographic
Considering the growth of the female comic reading demographic in general, it stands to reason that the lesbian female demographic is also growing.
Still seems disproportionate vs the overall reader demographics (comics being typically the venue of young males).
you sound like the kind of guy who refers to himself as a “gentleman” on his tinder profile
You would be wrong. I’m old enough that I don’t have, or need, a Tinder account.
Emily Brontë is a woman + she wrote a book = Wuthering Heights must be a romance.
Abbadon is a man + he writes a webcomic with lesbians in it = K6BD must be fetishistic.
Similar logic perhaps? Lets give him a chance before jumping to conclusions. Judge his work on its own merits, not based on its author’s gender. Also, can we not insult each other so much. This is a peaceful land….
Unfortunately, we live in a world where men perpetuate so much misogyny in the works they create. It’s hard to ignore.
And you would never allow them the opportunity to learn to do anything else. Your position seems to be that men are awful by nature, they can never be better, and the only thing to do about it is complain.
I think that we should give Abbadon an opportunity to prove himself. However many wlw are commenting to remind Abbadon to keep it somewhat reigned in. Personally I’m not to worried, but still a little wary, since it could easily turn into fetishism.
Ask yourself, in most straight representation is the second interaction between two characters as a couple that’s shown, is it one asking the other for sex? Don’t know, just food for thought.
You seem to be quick to jump to women only being able to complain. Interesting!
Disliking you, spectator, is not the same as disliking all women everywhere. Noting that all you can do is complain is not the same as claiming that all women do is complain. You represent yourself, although it may be useful to you to pretend otherwise.
There is no point in arguing with you about art or literature because you not interested in that. Your sole interest is in power. You represent a totalitarian world view similar to National Socialism and Stalinism. Your objections to Abbadon’s works because of his gender ultimately comes from the Communist dogma that the individual is defined by and non-existent outside of their class background, just as the Nazis claimed that the individual is nothing aside from their place in the “racial community” Both Nazis and Communists would agree, with you, that art is nothing but politics by another name. There is, therefore, no possible common grounds to argue with you about art.
The only thing to be done is to point to your “critiques” as you call them and say; If you help advance the political agenda of people like this, you will give them control over your cultural and personal life. You cannot separate the radical activist from the commissar – or the block warden, or the Red Guard – because they are all the same person. Anyone who values literature and art must necessarily defend them from the slanders of vulgar power-worshipers such as yourself, spectator. What you represent is the reduction of art to agitprop slogans shouted over a loudspeaker, and what you are is the herald of is a new barbarism, a new Dark Age.
(The same thing, it should go without saying, applies to spectator’s opposite numbers on the “alt-right”, the MRA activists, modified only by their considerable stupidity. In general though, the modern day inheritors of the traditions of Lunacharsky and Goebbels, although they are just as malignant as their predecessors, represent in other respects a certain decline. Which we should take some comfort in. )
God, you are just the worst aren’t you ? This isn’t about you. Or about you being a woman. Nor do you speak for all women or lesbians.
Its almost like all you’ve been doing is complaining and offering nothing of value. Nobody here hates women, they just hate you.
That interpretation would be consistent with your deluded position that you can serve as an authoritative proxy for all women.
However, my position, as I have clearly stated, is that you do not represent anyone but yourself. My criticism here is of you and you alone, based just on your behavior, and not any other property or group membership.
i mean, spectator, to be fair you literally in another comment thread above implied another lesbian woman is only okay with this rep because she has low standards& is used to being treated badly, so…
that’s a pretty garbage thing to say to a person who is okay with something you’re not. I’m a lesbian myself, and I’m fine with the page, because it’s the culmination of an absolutely insane sexual tension–plus, they’ve been shacked up for a year, so this is……MOST LIKELY not the first time they’ve had sex?
hell, my fiancee will just straight up be like “hey, wanna fuck?” so, like, it’s…definitely a thing that happens
Someday I’ll learn to obey the greatest instruction, “Never read the comments.”
So sad, because these are usually some of the greatest comments on all the internet. (a low bar to be sure but not insignificant.)
Masked, that is certainly true most of the time for this comic which is why I usually do read them. The comments ever since this chapter started, though, have been mostly a disaster. I’m becoming concerned by the trend downward towards the standard internet comments.
i am gay and i love this thank you
Same.
Plums absolutely can and do go crunch. It just depends on the plum.
Goddamnit i was just about to choose that name.
What need does a devil have, for subtlety?
it allows them to get close enough to stab someone in the back ?
damn this is nuts she really going to have casual sex with the devil girl she made out with in the last book as a woman who felt compelled to have sex with a man just to be normal at the beginning of the comic and has been going through a process of self discovery and intense training of her powers with said devil girl who has commitment issues and offered to have casual sex with her at the end of the last book. shit is wild. If you’re a man reading this you also suck
me: women and especially lesbians are frequently hypersexualized when represented at all by their male creators
also me: Ab show me devil pussy
Same girl same
P R E A C H
Silent woman through the flames, you come
From the deep behind the sun
Come for the Comic
Stay for the silly comments
Love and be merry
WHAT?!
First page of the comic: nervous virgin with her boyfriend.
Now: explicitly asks a demon woman to take her virginity.
I get the impression they have been doing it for several
Months at this point
We live in a society my comrades.
You only have so many hours in your day, people. Invest your hours in stuff you DO like, instead of screeching at people who like a thing you don’t.
Being in possession of an exoskeleton, she technically doesn’t have a bone of any sort in her body.
Hrmm… Makes me wonder what Zaid’s gonna think of his girlfriend having a girlfriend. Also makes me wonder: would this be considered cheating on her boyfriend?
Reckon it’s been a year though, Zaid is probably being well taken care of hisself, if ya get my meaning. Oooo, but what if he’s been a proper gentleman, waiting for his lady-love?
Hrmm…
There’s no such thing as a straight woman. So if he’s open minded enough, he’ll be ok with it I guess.
Maybe Zaid has been engaging in sweet man love in the meanwhile. Since there is no such thing as a straight man.
He’s like a lowkey predator and they met at a frat party. Also, Allie’s clearly not attracted to men lol.
Hrmm… Read into their relationship whatever ya want, I reckon she liked him enough to call him her boyfriend and embark on an interdimensional quest at risk of life and limb in order to find him and bring him home. There must be / have been some sort of feelings there. We’ll have to wait and see how it all sorts out, won’t we.
IIRC, She picked him *because* he was a low-level predator -at least, her girlfriends warned her about him. But she wanted to lose her virginity, and I’d guess she’d already backed out of prior encounters. So she picked someone who was known for pushing. Which is all kinds of effed up, but we know she was pretty neurotic already.
She went back talking about rescuing him, but even then it sounded like an excuse. She’d heard the Call To Adventure, and that was that.
Hrmm… Sounds like a lot of guessing. Don’t recall her girlfriends warning her about him ~ other than to say he’s “a creeper”. Also don’t recall them meeting at a frat party.
Considering she was warned about Cio as well (Cio being a low-level predator and “known criminal”), where does that put Allison now? Reckon she’s still learning how to relationship properly, maybe.
Hrmm… I’d also add that it’s debatable on whether or not she likes men, since there don’t seem to be a lot of fellas around ~ other than Devils and Demi-Urges.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Zaid was too busy trying to find a way home, or at least a way to deal with his situation, to get any, so to speak. :/
So, the next page isn’t here yet, so I post my brand-new theory here: on the next page Cio says something like “But anyway tha must _persuade_ me”, and so here comes practice in the White Art. Seems logical.
.WE PARTAKE IN THE CRUNCH PLUM_
.WE ARE NOT OFFENDED_
.LIKE THE PLUM WE TRANSFORM TO BECOME_
honestly like digging at this as fetishization or misogyny or lesbophobia given the story context and previous references to their physical relationship and emotional development in the last book is annoying but the number of nerd dudes who probably read Alfie and hate essjaydoubbleyous who are responding back is even worse. gamers should be purged
🙁 I never knew my love of a form of entertainment warrants my purging. I thought I was just enjoying my time and not bothering others. I guess I was wrong.
GAMERS RISE UP!
Come on, that was clearly a joke.
Vidjas are not to be joked about
*Is wondering if I woooshed*
Fret not. It was a joke. This is just a time in the comments where it is hard to distinguish real opionions from people having a giggle.
Games are both silly and serious
I guess you were wrong
Yeah, you get that from narrow minded folks these days. They’d rather just “purge” people who are different from them, or don’t agree with them.
HEY … Whats wrong with Alfie ?
Also this comic has had a strong feminist vibe and message since the beginning, I doubt the people you’re describing would’ve made it this far into it. People are just getting kinda heated and hyperbolic over… well over pretty much nothing, really. Myself included. I dunno.
“Art is not a democracy.”
KB6D is one of the greatest things on the internet Abbadon. It’s original, epic and intelligent.
On bad days, this a world I’m happy I can escape into.
Thank you!
Please keep it up.
A note on the conjuring of food: Whatever else one can produce out of thin air, being able to supply rations is one of the most important elements of leading an army.