I feel like when Jadis first broke out of the prison of ice she was trapped in and finished saving Alison, she immediately began ominously starting at the plants in the atrium for lack of anything better to do at that exact moment.
Interesting… I wonder if dessicated corpse Jadis we always see is, essentially, the “endpoint” Jadis that tosses herself back through time sometimes when her presence is required. And thus what we’re seeing here is normal present day Jadis that hasn’t gotten there yet, but is still omniscient/receiving instructions from her future self.
42 Fragments the Universe Beyond All Reintegration
I wonder if Jadis’s omniscience extends only to the material world like the master of space in Aesma and the Three Masters.
She knows the path of every atom and the exact physical structure of every neuron in Allison’s brain, but cannot derive from that her conscious experience.
On the other hand if she does know conscious experience I can’t imagine anyway of knowing for certain the nature of anothers experience without having that experience myself.
This leads me to the conclusion that if Jadis is omniscien in the full sense of the word she must at every moment feel all the pain that has ever been or ever will be, just as she must simultaneously occupy all points of view that have or will exist.
The author can change their mind. It doesn’t seem like Jadis can. I wouldn’t even call her a reader – a reader can reinterpret things, changing the(ir) story by doing so.
There seems to be tons of speculations concerning Jadis’s abilities, agenda and personality, so here I come and cynically post everything there is in Abbadon’s Tumbler on subject. Mind you, he can be somethimes deceptive and word-playing, yet the vast majority of his answers later proved to be rather sincere, though restricted.
Q: So we know that Jadis is worshipped as a goddess by her followers, but does she actually have any power besides seeing the future? Can she do anything truly godlike from the confines of her mirror prison, or is she mostly just a talking mirror?
A: Mostly a talking mirror. But a very accurate talking mirror.
Q: Do Jadis’ followers keep her entertained? Because it probably gets pretty boring cooped up in that mirror, or does she entertain herself?
A: She can’t actually communicate with anyone outside the glass! So I guess the latter.
Q: How do Jadis’s followers worship her? Do they see her as a holy prophet with a direct link to Yisun’s infinite wisdom? Or a sacred martyr who sacrificed herself for her people? Or do they see her as the one and only god(dess), all powerful and ever watchful?
A: All three. Jadis is the only one among the Seven to have seen the Shape of the Universe, so she is known as the Bearer of the Shape.
Q: How many people have seen the shape of the universe? Is it incredibly difficult to do?
A: One that survived the experience, and that was Jadis. The entire upper echelon of her technopriests died when they looked.
Q: What would life be like for an average subject within one of Jadis’s worlds?
A: The temple of the Eye Revealed, the theocratic order that rules Jadis’ worlds in her stead, is not usually involved in the day-to-day affairs of her worlds, except when it deeply and intimately is. Said involvement usually involves grand Inquisitions to root out unbelievers and witches. They are not merciful.
Q: Why does Jadis wear a mask?
A: Her face is not in great condition, it’s partly for her own benefit, and partly for the comfort of her acolytes.
Q: Did any of the Seven have mentors?
A: (…) Jadis had no mentor save her father, who she killed at a young age. (…)
Q: Excluding Incubus, who’s answer is obvious, did any of the other Seven have lovers or significant others?
A: Definitely. Solomon’s family is still around, in a sense, and his path to godhood was started when his family was threatened. Gog-Agog and Mottom both had significant others that figure significantly into their stories. Mammon is a huge outcast from his family, and Jadis had a relationship with her parents, albeit a cold one. Only Jagganoth has never felt love of any kind.
Q: All all the demiurges (our great Red God excluded now and the Master key, of course) as powerful as each other? Is it all down to the keys in their foreheads, or does the individual its in determine the power they can wield?
A: Some are definitely more powerful than others (in personal abilities). Probably the rankings I’d have to go with are Jagganoth > Jadis (pre-entombing) > Solomon >Gog-Agog > Incubus > Mottom > Jadis (post-entombing) > Mammon.
Q: Jadis must’ve been really, really powerful to behold the Shape, right?
A: Terrifyingly so.
Q: So, Mottom just said that there’s no life after death, but I think Zoss would disagree, and there’s all those shades that the people of Throne use to carry things through the Void for them. Is she just being figurative, or is she somehow misinformed about what seems to be a fundamental part of the world she lives in?
A: According to the Prophet Jadis, who is never wrong, it is impossible for any mortal flame to last forever – it is doomed to flicker out and die, no matter how strong. This was the gift or the curse of Aesma to humans when she created them. It’s one of the fundamental truths that Jadis saw when she beheld the Shape.
The shades going around Throne are not truly alive in a sense. It’s possible for shades to retain personality for some time, but inevitably it fades within a few years as their soul flame grows feeble and dim. They are merely mindless imitations of life.
Zoss is a different story. If one is an ardent student of the path to Royalty, such complications may seem trivial.
Q: Why is Jadis never wrong?
A: She is the Bearer of the Shape of the Universe, the Queen of Shapes, whose body and mind were scoured by its witnessing.
Q: This is probably me wandering in wrong direction: You say Jadis is never wrong because she saw the shape of the universe, but she calls Zaid KSBD while Zoss says Alison is. Is this because Zoss is outside of the shape of the universe(?) and can mess around with causality. Also if this is true, I’m guessing Incubus knows this on some level (from dream sequence.)
A: You’ll notice that Jadis doesn’t actually say very much in that scene and most of the talking is done by her translator. This is pretty intentional.
Q: You have said that J-star and Jagganoth know more of the true nature of world. Since Jadis is the Bearer of The Shape, does she know as much or more than them?
A: Jadis knows the most, in fact. Of anyone. Ever.
Q: What does Jadis even want anymore?
A: Very sincerely: to die.
Q: You already did a relative power ranking on each of the Seven. I was wondering where they fell on the Melee-Magic-(Tech?) side of fighting. Mottom is shown using a lot of magic (since she is older than dirt.) and you’ve sort of hinted at Jag leaning more towards beating you to death. Where do the others fit, both now and during the Universal War?
A: They’re all badass martial arts sorcerer kings. I think Mottom in her youth could probably bust out some serious kung fu. I may still have her do that, it’s just not in her character at the moment.
Solomon is the best at fighting, outside of Jagganoth. Jadis was a very powerful wizard king, Incubus is a sword master, and Mammon was not a natural fighter but it didn’t matter due to his prodigious size.
The real odd one out is Gog-Agog, who gets by on her peculiar physiology. Even Jagganoth would have a hard time with her. She would be the strongest demiurge if not for her flights of fancy.
Q: Who are said to be the oldest and the youngest members of the Seven, respectively?
A: Oldest to youngest:
Gog Agog (by a large, large margin)
Jadis
Mammon
Mottom
Solomon David
Jagganoth
Incubus
Q: How does the faith of Jadis view the prophecy that she will be killed? And that she wants to die?
A: They’re actually not really opposed to it, just not before it is supposed to happen. In their view (which is upheld by Jadis never, ever being wrong), Jadis is about as good as a god as you can get, since she is actually omniscient, if not omnipresent or omnipotent.
Q: Before she witnessed the shape, what was Jadis’ corner of the multiverse like? Also, what was her personality like?
A: Jadis was very well organized and extremely ambitious. She was the last student of the demiurge’s schools and philosophical societies that concerned themselves with the pursuit of the arcane sciences and the study of pure reality – the branch of the demiurges that sought to completely dominate and master the universe, to dissect it and understand it like a lab specimen. In many ways, the experiment that led to her maiming was the culmination of that powerful lineage.
Q: Why are the Seven so completely convinced that Zaid is the Successor that they take for granted that Allison isn’t? Is it because Jadis says that he will be? She may have seen the Shape of the Cosmos, but does that mean she has to describe it truthfully?
Our dear Grandpa has seen the shape of all things! And with this great knowledge desires to help people. And has always been very polite and kind while doing so.
How can it be that I, the drinkerest drunk to have ever drank, is the one that has to point out that Kadi’s has TWO shadows? I mean c’mon, it’s plain as day Jadis has a shadow soul or something.
57 Gluttonous Hand Slaps The Bottom of the Unyielding Condiment
ignore this if we already know why she’s named jadis but “jadis” in french means “a very long time ago”.
also i just caught up on the comic. what a ride !!!! i loved every second of it !!! i don’t think theres anything quite like it.
Wake up Allison, you’re still blissfully asleep, made whole but not yourself, speaking to a projection of a memory forgotten about a person no longer existing.
Wake up, you’re in her mind’s eye, stuck, and she’s in your mind, making you die softly from sleep.
Aww, would you look at that porcelain face, at these awkward gestures, this adorable expression of deep concern for her patient! It’s almost like she isn’t a world-eating monster, who’s desire for dominion had set the multiverse ablaze.
“The Matrix Reloaded – Merovingian: “No. Wrong. Choice is an illusion, created between those with power, and those without. – What is it then, what is the reason? And soon it does not matter, soon the why and the reason are gone, and all that matters is the feeling itself. This is the nature of the universe. We struggle against it, we fight to deny it, but it is of course pretense, it is a lie. Beneath our poised appearance, the truth is we are completely out of control. Causality. There is no escape from it, we are forever slaves to it. Our only hope, our only peace is to understand it, to understand the why.’Why’ is what separates us from them, you from me. Why’ is the only real social power, without it you are powerless. And this is how you come to me, withoutwhy,’ without power.”
NO FUCK NO! *feels pain that Cio is gone*
I feel like when Jadis first broke out of the prison of ice she was trapped in and finished saving Alison, she immediately began ominously starting at the plants in the atrium for lack of anything better to do at that exact moment.
Interesting… I wonder if dessicated corpse Jadis we always see is, essentially, the “endpoint” Jadis that tosses herself back through time sometimes when her presence is required. And thus what we’re seeing here is normal present day Jadis that hasn’t gotten there yet, but is still omniscient/receiving instructions from her future self.
That would imply that Jadis seeing the Shape is a future event.
I guess plants gain in appeal when you can, at whim, instantly experience their greatest glory.
*Obligatory* Big tiddy glass GF
Those jugs are way more impressive than anticipated.
Poor cachectic Allison gonna have some serious boob envy.
I wonder if Jadis’s omniscience extends only to the material world like the master of space in Aesma and the Three Masters.
She knows the path of every atom and the exact physical structure of every neuron in Allison’s brain, but cannot derive from that her conscious experience.
On the other hand if she does know conscious experience I can’t imagine anyway of knowing for certain the nature of anothers experience without having that experience myself.
This leads me to the conclusion that if Jadis is omniscien in the full sense of the word she must at every moment feel all the pain that has ever been or ever will be, just as she must simultaneously occupy all points of view that have or will exist.
Pity the bearer of the shape.
If she is omniscient, then she is effectively the author.
Or the critic.
The author can change their mind. It doesn’t seem like Jadis can. I wouldn’t even call her a reader – a reader can reinterpret things, changing the(ir) story by doing so.
No, Jadis’ situation is unique.
Jadis is giving me the same vibe as one my aunts; Fairly pleasant, not rude, patient with others but all the while seemingly very very sad.
“Allison, I’m Omniscient!”
“No, I’m pretty sure you’re Jadis.”
“no, this is Patrick”
Omniscent but still socially awkward.
There seems to be tons of speculations concerning Jadis’s abilities, agenda and personality, so here I come and cynically post everything there is in Abbadon’s Tumbler on subject. Mind you, he can be somethimes deceptive and word-playing, yet the vast majority of his answers later proved to be rather sincere, though restricted.
Q: So we know that Jadis is worshipped as a goddess by her followers, but does she actually have any power besides seeing the future? Can she do anything truly godlike from the confines of her mirror prison, or is she mostly just a talking mirror?
A: Mostly a talking mirror. But a very accurate talking mirror.
Q: Do Jadis’ followers keep her entertained? Because it probably gets pretty boring cooped up in that mirror, or does she entertain herself?
A: She can’t actually communicate with anyone outside the glass! So I guess the latter.
Q: How do Jadis’s followers worship her? Do they see her as a holy prophet with a direct link to Yisun’s infinite wisdom? Or a sacred martyr who sacrificed herself for her people? Or do they see her as the one and only god(dess), all powerful and ever watchful?
A: All three. Jadis is the only one among the Seven to have seen the Shape of the Universe, so she is known as the Bearer of the Shape.
Q: How many people have seen the shape of the universe? Is it incredibly difficult to do?
A: One that survived the experience, and that was Jadis. The entire upper echelon of her technopriests died when they looked.
Q: What would life be like for an average subject within one of Jadis’s worlds?
A: The temple of the Eye Revealed, the theocratic order that rules Jadis’ worlds in her stead, is not usually involved in the day-to-day affairs of her worlds, except when it deeply and intimately is. Said involvement usually involves grand Inquisitions to root out unbelievers and witches. They are not merciful.
Q: Why does Jadis wear a mask?
A: Her face is not in great condition, it’s partly for her own benefit, and partly for the comfort of her acolytes.
Q: Did any of the Seven have mentors?
A: (…) Jadis had no mentor save her father, who she killed at a young age. (…)
Q: Excluding Incubus, who’s answer is obvious, did any of the other Seven have lovers or significant others?
A: Definitely. Solomon’s family is still around, in a sense, and his path to godhood was started when his family was threatened. Gog-Agog and Mottom both had significant others that figure significantly into their stories. Mammon is a huge outcast from his family, and Jadis had a relationship with her parents, albeit a cold one. Only Jagganoth has never felt love of any kind.
Q: All all the demiurges (our great Red God excluded now and the Master key, of course) as powerful as each other? Is it all down to the keys in their foreheads, or does the individual its in determine the power they can wield?
A: Some are definitely more powerful than others (in personal abilities). Probably the rankings I’d have to go with are Jagganoth > Jadis (pre-entombing) > Solomon >Gog-Agog > Incubus > Mottom > Jadis (post-entombing) > Mammon.
Q: Jadis must’ve been really, really powerful to behold the Shape, right?
A: Terrifyingly so.
Q: So, Mottom just said that there’s no life after death, but I think Zoss would disagree, and there’s all those shades that the people of Throne use to carry things through the Void for them. Is she just being figurative, or is she somehow misinformed about what seems to be a fundamental part of the world she lives in?
A: According to the Prophet Jadis, who is never wrong, it is impossible for any mortal flame to last forever – it is doomed to flicker out and die, no matter how strong. This was the gift or the curse of Aesma to humans when she created them. It’s one of the fundamental truths that Jadis saw when she beheld the Shape.
The shades going around Throne are not truly alive in a sense. It’s possible for shades to retain personality for some time, but inevitably it fades within a few years as their soul flame grows feeble and dim. They are merely mindless imitations of life.
Zoss is a different story. If one is an ardent student of the path to Royalty, such complications may seem trivial.
Q: Why is Jadis never wrong?
A: She is the Bearer of the Shape of the Universe, the Queen of Shapes, whose body and mind were scoured by its witnessing.
Q: This is probably me wandering in wrong direction: You say Jadis is never wrong because she saw the shape of the universe, but she calls Zaid KSBD while Zoss says Alison is. Is this because Zoss is outside of the shape of the universe(?) and can mess around with causality. Also if this is true, I’m guessing Incubus knows this on some level (from dream sequence.)
A: You’ll notice that Jadis doesn’t actually say very much in that scene and most of the talking is done by her translator. This is pretty intentional.
Q: You have said that J-star and Jagganoth know more of the true nature of world. Since Jadis is the Bearer of The Shape, does she know as much or more than them?
A: Jadis knows the most, in fact. Of anyone. Ever.
Q: What does Jadis even want anymore?
A: Very sincerely: to die.
Q: You already did a relative power ranking on each of the Seven. I was wondering where they fell on the Melee-Magic-(Tech?) side of fighting. Mottom is shown using a lot of magic (since she is older than dirt.) and you’ve sort of hinted at Jag leaning more towards beating you to death. Where do the others fit, both now and during the Universal War?
A: They’re all badass martial arts sorcerer kings. I think Mottom in her youth could probably bust out some serious kung fu. I may still have her do that, it’s just not in her character at the moment.
Solomon is the best at fighting, outside of Jagganoth. Jadis was a very powerful wizard king, Incubus is a sword master, and Mammon was not a natural fighter but it didn’t matter due to his prodigious size.
The real odd one out is Gog-Agog, who gets by on her peculiar physiology. Even Jagganoth would have a hard time with her. She would be the strongest demiurge if not for her flights of fancy.
Q: Who are said to be the oldest and the youngest members of the Seven, respectively?
A: Oldest to youngest:
Gog Agog (by a large, large margin)
Jadis
Mammon
Mottom
Solomon David
Jagganoth
Incubus
Q: How does the faith of Jadis view the prophecy that she will be killed? And that she wants to die?
A: They’re actually not really opposed to it, just not before it is supposed to happen. In their view (which is upheld by Jadis never, ever being wrong), Jadis is about as good as a god as you can get, since she is actually omniscient, if not omnipresent or omnipotent.
Q: Before she witnessed the shape, what was Jadis’ corner of the multiverse like? Also, what was her personality like?
A: Jadis was very well organized and extremely ambitious. She was the last student of the demiurge’s schools and philosophical societies that concerned themselves with the pursuit of the arcane sciences and the study of pure reality – the branch of the demiurges that sought to completely dominate and master the universe, to dissect it and understand it like a lab specimen. In many ways, the experiment that led to her maiming was the culmination of that powerful lineage.
Q: Why are the Seven so completely convinced that Zaid is the Successor that they take for granted that Allison isn’t? Is it because Jadis says that he will be? She may have seen the Shape of the Cosmos, but does that mean she has to describe it truthfully?
A: She is quite literally omniscient
Ah, I forgot to fix the apostrophes, what a shame. I beg your pardon, folks.
Pardon given, this is an extremely helpful but of information.
Bit*
Our dear Grandpa has seen the shape of all things! And with this great knowledge desires to help people. And has always been very polite and kind while doing so.
I hope Jadis isn’t a psycho… I hope she’s actually kind.
Jadis has a lot more personality (and personality expression) than I expected.
Apparently being all-knowing does not give knowledge of how to act ideally in social situations.
How can it be that I, the drinkerest drunk to have ever drank, is the one that has to point out that Kadi’s has TWO shadows? I mean c’mon, it’s plain as day Jadis has a shadow soul or something.
Ah, good. The presence of plants has calmed Allison. She seemed pretty stressed for a bit there. Nice touch, Jadis.
ignore this if we already know why she’s named jadis but “jadis” in french means “a very long time ago”.
also i just caught up on the comic. what a ride !!!! i loved every second of it !!! i don’t think theres anything quite like it.
Are you really “confined” to a script if the character you’ve been forced to play is literally just you?
Wake up Allison, you’re still blissfully asleep, made whole but not yourself, speaking to a projection of a memory forgotten about a person no longer existing.
Wake up, you’re in her mind’s eye, stuck, and she’s in your mind, making you die softly from sleep.
If you look at the text in description and hover, it reads like a conversation between Jadis and Allison.
Perhaps that’s the discussion they’re having in the “real” world, separate from what’s being dreamt of here in this real of lies.
Aww, would you look at that porcelain face, at these awkward gestures, this adorable expression of deep concern for her patient! It’s almost like she isn’t a world-eating monster, who’s desire for dominion had set the multiverse ablaze.
I know it’s like a dark, despairing moment and all.
But Jadis is *really* looking fine, like DAMN gurl.
I don’t trust Jadis… But the atrium does have plants…
“So I see you’re a little out-of-sorts right now, that’s fine, that’s fine; we can just discuss the medical bill later”
…This woman is the most insane of the Demiurges.
“The Matrix Reloaded – Merovingian: “No. Wrong. Choice is an illusion, created between those with power, and those without. – What is it then, what is the reason? And soon it does not matter, soon the why and the reason are gone, and all that matters is the feeling itself. This is the nature of the universe. We struggle against it, we fight to deny it, but it is of course pretense, it is a lie. Beneath our poised appearance, the truth is we are completely out of control. Causality. There is no escape from it, we are forever slaves to it. Our only hope, our only peace is to understand it, to understand the why.’Why’ is what separates us from them, you from me. Why’ is the only real social power, without it you are powerless. And this is how you come to me, withoutwhy,’ without power.”
This is her real problem. She knows all. She has all causality worked out and feels a slave to it.
But she doesn’t know the WHY and so, she is powerless and slave to the very causality she sees so completely without understanding what she sees.