BREAKER OF INFINITIES 3-94 to 3-95
Chapter: 3
Feet of Clay
Kill Six Billion Demons
BREAKER OF INFINITIES
WARNING: The next few KSBD updates are super spoilery. If you're cool with that, scroll down. If not, click here for the first page of the comic
I have no sympathy for these people. I can appreciate that their world just got turned upside down, but going after Salami Dave like this is just… brainless.
They want to get a few kicks in before they all die I guess? I’m not gonna applaud them for it.
No. The Worm.
Huh. That might very well be true. How do we know these aren’t all possessed by Gog-Agog?
Imagine the worst calamity you could think of.
Then it happens.
Then before you stands the guy who _promised_ it wouldn’t, if you only did everything he said.
You fulfilled your role (not like he gave you a choice, really) but when it came down to it he couldn’t deliver on his part.
And again it’s seemingly his subjects who have paid the bigger cost (dead > beaten up).
You’d be furious too. And would want some answers.
I honestly think this is fitting: in Solomon’s society, anyone who has failed to meet strict expectations has been shamed and punished harshly.
And as for these expectations, Solomon David set them himself.
He’s created an utterly pitiless society. Pointless as it might be, nobody is going to try to assist Solomon David, not even a word of encouragement.
They may not be ‘encouraging’ him, but several in the crowd are still begging him to protect them. They haven’t all lost faith, maybe that will make a difference.
He is visualizing his own hell.
No, he is living it.
No man is of metal made
And must throw down his sword
To take up the spade
Then with heavy heart
Soon dig his grave
Feet of Clay
Heart of Glass
*tnk tnk tnk*
TMW you realize you have witnessed the Jaggahog in all its Glory.
Paternum! Oh, Father of Rayuba, hear you now the anger and the fear of your people. It is a fear that breaks your heart, an anger that cuts at your soul.
You have been a Tyrant, Paternum. But take courage. Gather your embers.
There is still time to be a King.
There is a chance, here at the End, to be Royalty.
If you *are* royalty, then you are doing it wrong. You royalty royalty.
Lesser royalty is to true Royalty as a jester’s cap is to an emperor’s laurel.
A throne is meaningless to One who Cuts the World.
Looks like David is descending into his own private hell before it all comes to a brutal end.
he looks kinda stressed
Oh yeah, this is going to end so well for so many people.
Will he do the predictable thing and use the power of frozen-time fists to silence his detractors?
They look pretty well done, already.
Smells like a worm’s petty revenge.
The mass is immortal. The mass always wins.
The mass is immoral. The mass always whines.
The mass is immature. The mass always wanes.
The mass is immovable. The mass always weans.
The mass is submersible. The mass always swims.
Strangely no one mentioned it. On the last frame, Solomon highly resembles Doctor Manhatten in the midst of journalist croud. Not only facial expression, but even his colour.
When you spend so long at the top, it’s a long way to fall.
Dammit I didn’t mean to post this here. I hate this comment system.
Ohhh— good catch.
Does that mean he’s about to teleport to Mars?
Well played!
Get His Ass.
This is one of those scenarios where, if you take the author’s premise as given, a character like Salami Dave is not in the wrong.
In this universe, there has never been a reality other than a brutal application of power. There are demigods in constant war and everyone else bearing the brunt. Forced servitude, unmitigated violence, victimization by literal devils, etc. are the norm.
And here is Solomon David operating within this framework. Currently the second-strongest being known to exist, he guards an uneasy peace with the rival powers, rules a prosperous empire. Are his laws overbearing and restrictive? Absolutely, by our standards. But it is an empire of laws, which is no small accomplishment in a society dominated by a small martial elite.
This is why we celebrate Hammurabi or Moses or Solon or any other ancient leader’s system of laws. It’s not that they would pass muster today, but that they emerged from the chaos to lay down such principles, which we have the benefit of building upon.
What in all of KSBD makes anyone think representative government would be viable? How would it survive a world with demiurges?
Tl;dr: The universe portrayed by the author precludes condemning Salami Dave for his system because it does not present a viable alternative.
There was a time before the demiurges, and even now, there are unconquered worlds that the demiurges have never visited or sent any kind of army or representative to, even if the demiurges recognize a particular one of them as having a claim to that world.
The presence or absence of demiurges doesn’t actually change the question, however. We must still ask ourselves if there is a way for multiple people to share the universe without struggling for dominance.
To the contrary, I’m thinking that the presence of the demiurges is a very pertinent fact.
We have a narrative universe where there exists a limited quantity of power which grants the ability to singlehandedly slaughter armies and conquer nations, and through an evolutionary process of sorts, that power naturally falls into the hands of power-hungry individuals.
Contrast that to our world, where every government, even dictatorial ones, requires the collective consent of the governed, and no single man has the ability to compel humanity otherwise.
I think a more accurate description of the comic’s moral theme is “Highlander-style superpowers are antithetical to non-dictatorial forms of government”.
…
In reference to the unconquered worlds and times before demiurges, sure, but you also can’t unbreak an egg.
What about Throne? Life there isn’t ideal- and is highly variable depending on where you look- but it isn’t some horror show everywhere you look. In Allison’s neighborhood we saw countless people just living, minding their own business.
Throne is a neutral ground among Demiurges, is a world which has been exposed to their might, and has potential to improve. You don’t have to throw out a broken egg.
That was a poor choice of words on my part.
“Unbreaking an egg” is commonly used example in physics talks for explaining why entropy tends to proceed in one direction. But as we’ve seen, Zoss at least can unbreak eggs via his time manipulation powers.
I meant more to say that the general populace of KSBD don’t seem to have good options for reversing course. The worlds with opened gates are involved with the larger universe now.
What surprises me is how dysfunctional it all is, going all the way back to YISUN themselves. I mean, the Demiurges we know seem to have done little more than squat on their share of the multiverse and drain it of everything they like. Before them, there was Zoss and his Demiurges playing philosopher-kings – but while Zoss may talk big, he’s the one responsible for the whole mess, rewinding the Wheel as he pleases. Before Zoss & Co. there were the Prime Angels who did basically nothing for thirty Kalpas(!), and before that was the time of the Gods and from the various stories we’ve seen, they were little more than super powered soccer hooligans. At the very beginning we have YISUN – an all-powerful god who couldn’t even live with Themselves. For all the talk about Royalty and stuff, nobody in the KSBD-verse seems to have their sh*t together.
In that respect it is remarkablly similiar to our own universe.
What makes you think our world won’t eventually reach the same conflict? As power consolidates into fewer and fewer hands, the same process may very well lead us to the point where those who rule no longer need the consent of the governed. The moral questions are the same.
Oh, we’re well on our way to that. It’s only a matter of time now, and not even that much time.
Glad you asked!
As far as I’m aware, the Roman Empire fell apart over a millennium ago. Which is to say that power in our world can diffuse as well as consolidate.
Wow Cool Robot refers to an exploitable drawing intended to satirize people who miss the subtext of certain pieces of media. The original features a person looking at a Gundam and saying “Wow, cool robot!” while he ignores the missile flying over his head labeled “War is bad.”
You’re doing that, right now, with the entire point of this comic. That the whole ethos of “Might means Right!” is dangerous and destructive.
I know what point the author is -trying- to make, and it’s been a fun read. But despite whatever pseudo-eastern mysticism he posts as flavor, he has not accomplished the difficult task of explaining -why-, in THIS fictional universe, someone like Zoss or Solomon David is to be condemned.
It’s destructive, yes. But what is the alternative? Abaddon hasn’t shown us. All we’ve seen are the brutal consequences for those who are weak unless they are under the patronage of a demigod, and often not even then.
Can you comprehend this? Just like that one Gundam series (Gundam Wing I think) where the villain was trying to make a war so brutal no one would ever want war again and the hero (and by proxy we) treats his method and goal as logical, but won’t concede to the price.
The writers intend for us to nod our heads at this solemn conflict of ethos, but the antagonist’s point is stupid. There is no reason to believe some intergenerational change of fundamental human nature could ever occur if he won. You just had to suspend your disbelief and enjoy the ride.
Now, Abaddon can give us some result that shows the viable alternative sometime between now and the end. But my criticism is that it hasn’t been adequately established. There’s been a lot of great world building and flavor, but the moral construct is lacking.
None of this justifies such behavior in the real world, which some people here are having trouble separating.
Just saying, you’re right Bad Music, nothing more to add.
Insert “Both? Both.” meme here.
I guess I’m not sure why you think this fictional universe being particularly harsh and cruel precludes the notion that there’s a middle ground between “being used as blood fodder for husband-tree” and Solomon’s totalitarian theocracy. The former being really, really, (really) bad doesn’t make the latter good, nor does it mean there isn’t room for improvement.
Your argument isn’t too far removed from the one tankies often make in support of autocracy, to be honest.
Ok. Alternatives? David Solomon could’ve still been a protector without being a tyrant. First and most obviously, he could’ve not been a despot who sent people to jail for twenty-five years for drinking. He could’ve just not done that. Secondly, he could’ve had a system of succession that doesn’t involve getting punched in the face. Generally that’s a pretty lousy way of seeing if someone has leadership potential. Third. Solomon could’ve actually shared power. He seems to run everything in his realm, not letting his worlds self govern to any degree. He’s a control freak of the unhealthy kind and this adds nothing. Fourth. He could’ve actually taught other people Ki Rata. Solomon seems to have this unhealthy obsession with being in charge and being on top. He could’ve had an elite cadre of Ki Rata monks defending his realm, he could’ve groomed a successor to his arbitrary needs. He didn’t. He wants someone strong enough to beat him but does nothing to help make that a thing. He wants a world where people like him aren’t needed and does nothing to help build that future.
Oh and fifth, he could’ve not belittled the allies he knew he needed if he wanted to stand a chance against Jaganoth.
If there’s no better alternative, then a lot of that is his fault. He had the power and resources to make a better alternative. He didn’t. And this is why Alison was chosen by Zoss to be his heir, not Solomon.
Asking good questions has value, even if you don’t have the answer. Regardless, Solomon could have chosen to protect, and even guide, the people without ruling them. He could have been a teacher, could have convinced them of the correctness of his rules, rather than simply pass them down from authority.
Who said they were to be condemned? They either did things wrong, but overall made things better for the time they had in an effort to promote independence and personal responsibility, or tried their hardest to make an empire based on decency and the rule of law, dressing it up as his moral duty to his people when he was the person who put them where they were in a futile effort to resurrect his dead homeland, and allowed no other influence but their own to the throne.
Which is it for you, and which one do you think I’m assigning these descriptions to?
If that was actually the message of Gundam, then it was presented in the dumbest way imaginable.
Given that the pacifists were always slaughtered first, and then the most skilled super soldiers using the cutting edge of weapons technology made peace by killing everyone that disagreed.
That isn’t “War is Bad”, that is “In order not to be slaughtered like lambs, you need a strong military, and the willingness to use it.”, which is the opposite message.
It’s more nuanced than just “War is bad.”
Gundam Wing alone had a series of arcs that built on each other.
“War is Hell, but peace is worth fighting for.
Nevertheless, if your goal is peace, you can’t just fight everybody who wants to fight. You’ll end up fighting each other, and miss your strategic goals.
A soldier who craves war should dedicate himself to a leader who craves peace.”
The simple, preferable alternative is to be better than Solomon David. His virtues do not outweigh, excuse, nor even require his sins. They are unrelated.
Consider the King who makes his people slave away to build this colosseum. Works of artifice and magic exist in Throne and surely in the worlds of Solomon David. But he prefers a world of backbreaking toil for his citizens. His laws do not require this. His pride does.
Consider the King who “fights to defend his people” from the Wheel-Turning King. While the false heir – a child grasping at power – uses their Key to protect their friends, Solomon David shields not his knights nor his citizens. He lets his children die. The first strike leveled against Solomon David, a casual blow from Jagganoth, is dodged and allowed to destroy parts of Rayuba. This King sacrifices hundreds of his people without consideration or thought when blocking is nothing to him.
Now I can say
When you want to be the One
What you start to realize
Is you’re the only One
-History Repeating, the Megas
He’s gonna murder them all, isn’t he?
It’s updates like this that really highlight how great Abby is at drawing faces. IMHO I think it’s one of the top reasons why his comics hit so good.
There are SO many pro-fashy comments here what is going on
Yeah it’s really fucked that in spite of the fact that “Might makes right” has been explicitly called out as the rot of this universe, people really wanna believe it’s fine as long as you dress it up prettily enough.
And even then, if we’re gonna measure Solomon by his own criteria, he still fails. Second best murder tyrant is cool and all, but if your entire ethos is “I deserve rule because I’m king of murder mountain” then it’s simply not good enough. You’re either the best or you get cut down, no exceptions.
Either way the point is that Solomon was never going to win this way. The closest thing we have to an apex of Might Makes Right has spent eternity looping a TPK, and he’s clearly gotten no joy or pathos from it. There’s a reason Zoss keeps insisting you can’t break the wheel by mastering it. You will never disassemble the master’s house with the master’s tools and it’s kind of alarming that so many people missed that when it’s been pretty openly outlined throughout Al and pals’ journey.
Except that the message actually displayed isn’t “Might makes Right”, Solomon is a random infantryman who turned cultivator to avenge his wife & daughter, who then after he got his revenge saw an entire multiverse on fire, and tried to put it out.
He failed, and has spent millennia surrounded by the Realms of Mad God-Kings, Roaming Devils Gangs, and Marauding Cultivator Sects trying to keep his corner of the multiverse from being devoured by them.
Big Salami’s story is “Might Should Do Right”/”With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility”.
“Might makes Right” doesn’t work, because Salami stepping down means the other six get to run wild.
If he had ditched Rayuba to go fishing before Main Character showed up, Main Character would never have even been born, because either Gog gorges herself on the whole multiverse, or Chakra Jugs destroys it.
Main Character & Friends only have a chance to fix things their way because Big Salami held the line until they got there.
This. Precisely this.
So two things: we’ve seen throne, and throne is bad, but is it as bad as 25 years prison for drunkness (and the implied authoriterianism that goes with it)
I’ld argue…. maybe. Some people would prefer the former, some would prefer the later, but the overly strick rules were not NECESSARY for preventing SD’s corner of the universe from burning down. They were a choice.
Second: What do Mammon’s worlds look like? What about Jadis?
They were the two “absentee” demi-urges, and we don’t see their worlds being invaded and destroyed…. but also we don’t see them. If they are “earthlike” (similar to Alisons earth and ours), then probably that is a better outcome. If they were “throne like”, then probably that is a worse outcome.
Abaddon, when he first described The Celestial Empire before the story actually went there, said that it was the best out of the seven.
So all of the other six are worse than Big Salami’s sad house.
But how much better _is_ the Celestial Empire than the other worlds? Iraq under Saddam Hussein vs. Iraq under ISIS? Our main source for the Empire being a beacon of enlightenment is Solomon’s speech in Book 4. Not that he’s at all biased, of course … :-/
What does “pro-fashy” mean? Is that a part of the story?
“Fashy” means “Fascist-y”. If someone is “fashy” that means they’re seemingly supporting fascistic ideas, but maybe not all of them and not in the exact form of historical fascists like Hitler and Mussolini (which is were most people’s minds go when they hear ‘fascist’, as if those tendencies died with them).
Wanting rules for society does not make you “fascist” I hope this helps.
O, praise the Law and its God, you subjects! Praise the Word All-Encompassing here at the end of times! Though the sword and the fire-arm rust in the earth or melt in the heat, though the King who bargained from his throne is seen dying and dead, remember the holy Rule, take it to the grave in your heart, for even here at the end of times there is no alternative! Amen, amen!
Beinh improsined for one quarter of a century for drinking is not rules, is facism. Pure and simple facism.
Go back to 4chan.
So what does wanting fair, reasonable rules instead of oppressive ones make you?
Advocating tyranny however does
There’s a difference between thinking authoritarianism is good in the real world and criticizing a fictional universe of cosmic beings for establishing no viable alternative.
If you see no viable alternative, you simply haven’t been reading closely enough.
You cannot beat the Wheel Turning God at his own game. This was prophesied in the age of the Multiplicity. Nevertheless, the entire Pact of the Seven Part World is about attempting to do exactly that.
The one who defeats Jagganoth will force him to play their game.
Solomon doomed the multiverse when * he* chose this strategy for the six.
Thank you, the whole point this series has been building up to has been about how this self-centered view of rulership and heroism is only making the end come quicker and more violently. Did these people skip book 3? Ignore the actual messages laid out in book four? Its like Jagganoth appeared and everyone forgot about the people the other demiurges doomed.
Fiction is a way of exploring abstract principles. Exploring an idea through a different lens aids in breaking it apart into its components, to find the underlying truth.
Someone who thinks authoritarianism is good in a fictional setting is only waiting for an opportunity to make it real.
I respectfully disagree with that. Although fiction can indeed be a good way to explore abstract principles, the fact that it creates a universe with its own specific rules means you can’t strictly apply real life-based reasoning to it – unless your whole setting is a only a deliberate metaphore of real life, which I don’t believe is the case at all for KSBD. It’s the whole point of fiction that you can create a setting where the IRL logic doesn’t apply.
Case in point here. KSBD takes place in a crapsack world with hints of cosmic horror, a world where your life is very likely to be shit no matter where you’re born because there are a bunch of mad gods running amok and toying with mortals as they please. In such a universe, an authoritarian regime that offers you protection and some sort of normalcy in exchange for abiding to incredibly strict rules can appear like the better choice. That is, until the author shows an even better alternative.
In other words, I would absolutely hate having to live in such an authoritarian regime in real life; but if I had to choose which of the 7 empires I would want to live in in the KSBD universe, Solomon David’s would probably be my pick, because of the lack of alternative and the fact that it appears as the least insane one.
So yeah, let’s just, you know, not get too zealous and judgemental about how other readers project themselves into a fictionnal world that could endure little to no serious comparison with ours.
Please restrain your use of “fascism” and related terms to actual instances of the ideology. We have seen absolutely nothing to indicate a specifically fascist structure for the government and economy of Solomon’s realm. It’s certainly authoritarian, but fascism is a specific ideology and throwing it around to describe any kind of authoritarianism you don’t like is both lazy and has the result of stripping all real meaning from the word.
True…
Fascism is not a specific ideology at all, though. It’s far too incoherent for that and insisting on only calling a few specific political groups as fascist after they self-identify as such blinds you to the dozens of other functionally iudentical groups that insist they’re *not* fascists.
Fascism, in its nature, is extremely internally inconsistent and so is always rushing to find some external threat to focus on, to stop those living under it and buying into it from thinking too hard on it lest they start to see the cracks in the system.
Query of the second moment:
Where in all the multitudinous and most crystalline forms of spacetime and Otherwise are you, Pree 82 White Chain?
Your newest student, Preem Solomon David, is in direst need of assistance, and perhaps a final lesson.
Diamond cracks.
Oh wow you protect them for centuries and this is the thanks you get? Ngl these people don’t deserve to live. In David’s place I’d just peace out and let them see how well they handle a 12 feet murder giant.
What the heck?
They’ve shed blood and tears all their lives to pay their god for his protection, and when the apocalypse arrives anyways, they deserve to *die* for wondering why?
Solomon *failed* them. He failed to design a just society while there was peace (because no one person can, let alone one whose chief talent is violence). And he failed to protect them, even though that was his autocracy’s one redeeming feature.
The people don’t deserve to be slaughtered by Jagganoth. Nor do they deserve to be ‘protected’ by Solomon for centuries. Like everyone in the multiverse, they deserve a hell of a lot *better.*
For everyone who thinks those citizens are being ungrateful, remember that the Celestial Empire was founded on the principle that Salami Dave is completely invincible .
This would be like being told by your parents your entire life that flame is just a myth only for them to walk into the living room on fire.
The Celestial Empire literally has Six other “Empires” surrounding it, and that Big Salami hasn’t tried to take over. The Celestial Empire has always known they aren’t invulnerable.
The Promise of Salami is that The Celestial Empire is objectively better than the other six.
Salami not being that great a ruler? He’s the only guy whose government we even bother criticizing, because damn do people under the other six have it absolutely, & objectively worse than anyone under the Big Salami.
It’s kinda hard to feel like “Yeah, you tell him!” when the other options are an Ice Cube, a Masochistic Smaug & his BDSM accountants, three different flavors of parasites, and the CEO of the Omnicidal-Industrial Complex.
While surrounded by marauding devil gangs & roaming cultivators.
Salami is bad IRL, but KSBD isn’t IRL.
Salami didn’t crack open them multiversal gates.
They were already open when he joined, and he’s been trying to unfuck someone else’s mess.
He did open them, though? Mottom has several unconquered, normal worlds, one of which Allison came from.
They were already open when he avenged his wife, daughter, and entire world. Rayuba got razed by another Demiurge who had already conquered a bunch of other worlds, and then Salami took over.
That not all gates were opened doesn’t mean that no gates were opened.
We have no reason to think that the gates cannot be closed; they were constructed by the Demiurges to make it easier for non-demiurges to get through in the first place. Given that Mottom was still expanding her control, it would also be reasonable to believe that Solomon’s actual militia isn’t just for keeping the peace.
There’s three possible outcomes here.
One, Solomon kills them all and goes off to fight Jagganoth and likely die.
Two, Solomon ignores them, goes off to fight Jagganoth and likely die.
Three, Solomon listens to them, possibly breaking down in the process about how he wanted only to protect them.
I have a bad feeling that option 3 is being pushed by Gog-Agog.
Alternatively, Solomon ignores them and uses a 10 finger technique on Jagganoth, killing the citizenry and doing nothing to prevent his own death. A final display of how his power hurt his people and did nothing but delay the inevitable.
People are taking the tyrant angle too literally. As far as we have been shown the society here is the least tyrannical and most stable (sure other places probably exist that are even better but those have never been shown which is the crucial part). At most the punishment for drinking being that long prison sentence shows that the man is out of touch, not that hes a tyrant, since punishing drinking is at least self consistent with the idea of law and order. Drunk people are a danger to themselves and others so punishing drinking discourages that, of course punishment doesn’t usually work hence the out of touch part but it does make logical sense and is far from tyranny. Some might say that any time a single ruler has absolute power it’s tyranny, but to me tyranny is when the rule is unjust, such as different people being treated differently under the same law and I doubt that’s the case in Rayuba.
Instead to me the whole tyrant thing is in fact a mental fear of Solomon. Perhaps he fears that despite his seeming perfection, no matter what he does people still break his rules and refuse his orders or that he can’t get the people to be truly content (both of which of course is impossible by human nature). He might even despise the people for that, which is also why he refuses to leave someone else in control while he pursues what he think he wants to pursue, which if he was a true ruler he easily could, because everyone else is “weak” and thus wants to find a “strong” person with the tournaments, but really it’s because everyone else is not him, the only person he has perfect control over.
Considering what we have learned on how the keys and the universe in general work, you have less control over the things you yourself aren’t in control off mentally, you have to be resolute to have control. Big Dragon wanted nothing more than gold and grew senile over it being unable to enjoy it no longer even though he should have been able to fix himself with his key. Mottom despised that people only saw her image not herself so she started to age and lose her beauty even though again she could have just made herself immortal and unaging like say Solomon who also seems to be just a “regular human” yet suffers no aging or decay like the 2 previous or at least simply presented herself as she was confident in her abilities despite the appearance. Solomon wants to be perfect and in many ways he is, hes clearly the most reasonable out of the 7, wisest in his policies, able to produce an island of effective and safe society in the middle of an ocean of chaotic. In that he has also learned the wrong lesson, that ruling means to be strong and lord over the weak to protect them from themselves. It’s a strategy that has worked for him and thus he thinks it’s true but it’s also his weakness. In his mind he MUST protect the people otherwise what is he? Thus he handicaps himself while Jagganoth doesn’t leading to his downfall. It’s natural for people to be angry, confused and scared and to call out to him in this crisis, it’s not natural for Solomon to perceive that as he clearly does as a flaming mass of rage and betrayal that shatters his perfection more than Jagganoth ever could, his expression more fearful now facing an old woman than when facing his biggest rival and greatest threat.
I also imagine the other lords of infinity will soon face a similar “ironic” end. Gog for instance is alone despite being the greatest multitude there ever was, wanting recognition from the only group of peers she has. Her “it’s me, myself and I vs them” attitude causes her to betray the people she wants to be friends with leading to their deaths. Incubus on the other hand is being set up to face Maya, himself frustrated that hes not recognized despite his many achievements while Maya is the “true” successor to the sword arts he claims to be king off, which is probably how his end will come, even though with the key he could simply cut. Or maybe not, who knows. Great series so far, can’t wait to see the finale.
I’m a bit split on the “flaming mass of rage and betrayal” thing.
That could be merely his perception of the crowd’s response, or if Jagganoth is nearby, they could literally be on fire.
A small remark: I think Gog-Agog really expected them to say they needed her when they were preparing to hurl that Spear at Jaggy. That was more unity than the Demiurges had ever experienced before and she wanted to be part of that. Her experession after Mottom told her off was one of utter disbelieve and hurt at being shut out. (Of course she was being childish, but a hurt child isn’t reasonable.)
Yes, Nadia absolutely got a critfail on her diplomacy check which the party needed to defeat the final boss. That failure rests with her.
Of course, I don’t blame her for everything. The one most guilty of being a dumbass is still Jagganoth. Lest we forget he’s a character too, and not just a static obstacle.
Very true. I find it hard to understand Jaggy’s reasoning. Apprently the normal sequence of events is that Zoss’s heir defeats the rest of the Seven, then Jagganoth defeats him, destroys everything and Zoss resets everything and tries a new heir. Jagganoth claims he wants to break free of that cycle. But the first time things go differently, by the Heir (Allison) NOT fighting the Demiurges, Jagganoth tries to push things back inot their normal pattern by killing the other Demiurges, which presumably leads to the same ending and reset as always. It doesn’t look like he’s thought things out very well. If anything, you would expect him to be happy that things are going different this time around. For all his talk he seems as stuck as the others.
“The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.”
Just isn’t purely about applying the same rules to everyone- its about being *proportionate*, and understanding of differing peoples differing circumstance.
>”Drunk people are a danger to themselves and others so punishing drinking discourages that, of course punishment doesn’t usually work hence the out of touch part but it does make logical sense and is far from tyranny.”
If you put yourself in charge, then being in touch is *your job*.
When he made himself a god, it became his responsibility to protect. When he made himself a king, it became his responsibility to understand.
By mushing the two jobs together the responsibilities and powers of each got… confused.
The first job he failed due to overwhelming hostile power, and honestly… I’m willing to give him a free pass on that. He tried. He bled. He *should* have tried and planned and schemed harder, but that’s a regular human failure.
The second job he failed because he didn’t understand what job even was. He didn’t understand that understanding was part of his responsibility, or realize that there needed to be voices other than his own.
And that failure is all on him.
(at the moment, both failures are being blended togeather. This leads to confusion, both in the characters and discussion section)